Sean Reyes-John Swallow Utah Attorney General GOP Debate

This is all paraphrased as I watch.

Opening Statements:

SEAN REYES - Thanks Stan Lockhart and Greg Peterson, excited about this debate and the Lincoln-Douglas format, and I apologize that Swallow changed his mind last night and refused to do an L/D style debate. "I want to return the attorney general's office as a voice for the people." Needs to make sure law enforcement does not deprive citizens of rightsd and liberties. I have the leadership background and experience. Please visit our website at http://www.seanreyes.com

JOHN SWALLOW - It's my privilege to be here this afternoon. Let's talk about our country and where we are. It's been my privilege over the years to stand on the wall and fight for you. It's been my privilege to work as a lawyer at a private-equity firm for almost 22 years, fighting my own cases, winning battles in court. I fought for property rights, I've been endorsed by the NRA, in the legislature I fought against illegal immigration. I'm part of the fight to defeat ObamaCare. I'm the lead attorney in regaining access to our lands. I'm pleased to earn the endorsement of Mike Lee, who knows my integrity and values.

Moderator: What was the largest case you've ever been involved in?

REYES - Hard to quantify, are you talking dollars, number of lawyers, etc. It was the Yellowstone case, billions of dollars at stake in that bankruptcy case where several small businesses stood to lose tens to hundreds of thousands on that. We faced the largest law firm in the nation, they sent 150 lawyers. I was one of the leads and we won, we protected those citizens.

SWALLOW - I'll waive rebuttal.

(Swallow's countenance is sunny.)

Moderator: In any state or federal court, have you first-chaired a trial, argued, or drawn a brief (not counting small-claims court)?

SWALLOW - That's tough for someone to answer for someone who's been a lawyer for almost 22 years. I'm almost always lead-chair in cases I work on. Example is touch-phone case. I handled XM International vs. I won a summary judgement.

(I'm not going to be too great at paraphrasing these court and case details examples).

REYES - You never first-chaired any trials at state or federal level, you never argued an appeal, you never drafted an appeal, the experience you're touting is what any second- or third-year litigator would do. It's what I've done my entire career. What I'm talking about is leadership. You take credit for ObamaCare, but--

(45 seconds are up.)

(Reyes is ready to fight.)

(Swallow kinda looks like Sen. Bill Henricksen when he gets upset.)

((Bill Paxton))

(((A slightly younger Bill Paxton)))

Moderator - What's your stance on public lands?

REYES - I fight. I support HB148. I understand the needs for a state to have sovereignty. Our Founders would turn in their graves if they could see what federalism has become. There are serious issues facing us. Sweeping federal powers have been granted to take lands. We're looking at different solutions. We want our lands back.

SWALLOW - Because my opponent doesn't have a record on that, I can't rebut that. I take him at his word. (See what he did there?) I'm running for attorney general, not running against Sean Reyes. I have led almost every case I've been in since I was a junior associate. I'm the lead counsel on the 3310 against the Secretary of the Interior when he tried to take away our lands.

Moderator - Are you AV rated, which is one of the highest integrity ratings? If not, what is your Martin-Dale-Hubbell rating?

(I get the feeling that lawyers went "WooOOoo!" when this was asked, while the rest of us went "Huh?")

SWALLOW - One of the funniest things is to listen to two lawyers talk about things that no one else understands. let me explain how Martin-Dale-Hubbell works. If you want a rating from them, you pay a fee. I have not been a part of a litigation firm, outside of the atty general's office, since I was 7 years out of law school. I know what kind of attorney I am, I honestly, Sean, don't know what my MDH rating would be. When I worked as a partner, I was entitled to it but I haven't thought about it until you brought it up.

(I remember a candidate once saying the same thing about the Better Business Bureau.)

REYES - I'll give you a pass for not understanding the process since you haven't practiced law for most of your 22 years. You don't pay for an AV rating, it's done anonymously. You can't get a skill rating until the majority of judges and lawyers feel you've earned it. Mark Shurtleff has a rating and he hasn't been in a law firm for a while. The lawyers and partners you talk about have AV ratings, I've had one for almost half of my career. It's significant. People are proud of it because we're real lawyers.

Moderator - The case against ObamaCare was filed the day it was signed. What was the rush? In trying to rush it, was anything sacrificed?

REYES - The whole idea of politicians putting forth 4000-page bills with unconstitutional items in there was horrible, but as atty general I would be for more openness and transparency, but since John brought something else up in his rebuttal, I want to address it. He staked his credibility as a lawyer on ObamaCare. His own people and his own office said he had little to do with it. Our former soliticor general Anita Mitchell was lead lawyer on it and called him on it. She said she felt disappointed you were misleading voters on that. The other folks in your office tell me you're hardly there, you're absentee; I understand you have political ambitions and other things you want to work on.

SWALLOW - Wow. That's all I can is "Wow." You are so misinformed. I have respect for Mitchell, but she was not part of the main team. I was on the ground floor. Sean, you don't know what you're talking about. Get your facts straight and be honest. Wow. Wow!

Moderator - Name the following: the companies you have lobbied for, the last time you received compensation for lobbying, and any supplemental income you receive outside of atty general's office since you started working there.

SWALLOW - The answer is no to the first two. (What?!) I have friends in the legislature, and I decided to go beyond what the law required and disclose anytime I met with anyone. Disclosure and transparency is missing in this state. You should know better. You know what you've accused me of is not true.

(I just heard the head of a former Provo City Council employee explode.)

REYES - You didn't even answer the question, and that's the problem, and your indignation belies the fact that someone's calling you out and asking you to be honest. You give yourself too little credit for your lobbying career. I remember being introduced to you by Richard Rahle (sp?), your former boss, he's the CEO of Check City (Swallow just got that "oh-crap" look on his face) and he was bragging about his super-lobbyist, and that seems inconsistant with how you portray it. You can sound good, but the facts contradict what you say, and people need to hear that. That's the only reason we're bringing these up. We're running for Attorney General, not Lobbyist General, not Legislator General; that's all I've done, and I'm a better lawyer than you.

(Drops the mike and walks away.)

(Not really.)

Moderator - Freedom and liberty are the reason these people are here today. Tell me how the Attorney General factors into that.

SWALLOW - Before I was in the Atty General's office, I didn't really know about federal encroachment, but now I understand. The Atty General is about being a leader, and he does more than log hours and fill briefs. He has to stand up and have a vision, and that's what we did against ObamaCare. The states are the guardians against federalism. The Attorney General fights for our liberties. I will lead the fight for liberty.

REYES - The role of the Atty General is one of those pre-eminent roles. I'm tired of the Fed Govt of telling us what to do with our land and our guns and our gold, they have too much interference in our daily lives. I will fight to return power back to the individuals, to families, not just the state against the federal government. Here's the irony, sometimes the state will turn around and encroach on the rights of the cities and municipalities. We need someone not to just stand on a wall, but who will get in the trenches and fight. We have to be vigilant or freedoms will erode away, and we need someone who will stand and fight.

Moderator - Summation from each candidate.

SWALLOW - Thank you, it's been a privilege. I can use my personal history as experience, as Deputy Attorney General, as six years in the legislature. The NRA, Mike Lee and Mark Shurtleff endorsed me. I will fight for the rights of the parents. I will lead the fight against illegal immigration, when I voted to make English the official language of the state. I can't believe you ripped my metaphor about standing on a wall, we need to stand on anything to fight back against the federal government.

REYES - We need a lawyer. When you vote for the Attorney General, you're voting for the state's top lawyer, and John helped me make my case, you're also voting for a leader. I have far more leadership experience, I've led large teams of lawyers and business organizations, I've been a leader my entire career. I want to take that experience to the Attorney General's office. I will roll up my sleeves and not worry about a political career, but turn the AG office back into one for the people. We don't need a career politician who happens to have a law degree; we need a career lawyer who happens to understand politics, and that's what I will bring. With your vote on June 26, I will stand up to protect our families, our freedoms, our lands, our business communities, these are my commitments to you, based on sound Constititutional principles. My experience in law and leadership speaks for itself, my opponent's lack of law and leadership speaks for itself, and the disparity between us speaks for itself. Sean Reyes, Utah's next Attorney General.

And it's over.

After this debate they took a straw poll and Reyes won with 62%. It was electric, and now it's a matter of looking up the stuff they said and seeing who's portrayed a more accurate picture. Personally, I thought Reyes did a nice job of contrasting their experience and he came ready to fight. He made Swallow look like a politician first. (And I've heard from others about his lobbying for payday loan companies). I was for Reyes before I saw this, but now I really am.

Which lawyer would I want representing me? For me it's now obvious.

You can watch the whole debate yourself here.