CISPA passes

I am against internet censorship.  I know how these things work; our Fourth Amendment is already hanging by a thread, and public outcry helped kill SOPA/PIPA, and now here comes a similar bill with less publicity.  It passed the House easily, partial thanks to two of Utah's congressmen, Jim Matheson (D) and Jason Chaffetz (R).  Kudos to Rob Bishop (R) for voting No.

Here's the roll call for how they voted.

It's all done in the name of keeping us safe and preventing cyber-attacks, but naturally it allows for mischeif and collusion between corporations and the government.  The Obama Administration pledged yesterday to veto the bill in its current form.  I hope they stick to that.

Utah State GOP Convention

Man, do I wish I could have been there in person.

I'm a county delegate, not a state one, and if it were any other Saturday, I may have gone there for the fun of it.  And to support Dan Liljenquist, but mainly the fun.

And for straight solid results, check out UtahGOP.

U.S. Senate

Orrin Hatch and Dan Liljenquist are going to a primary vote.  I am thrilled.  Hatch did a really good job stuffing caucus night with supporters, and I am pretty sure most of my state delegates went in planning to vote for Hatch.  I'm glad the voters will ultimately be able to decide this one.

Governor

I like Gary Herbert and Morgan Philpot, having done a little for each on past campaigns, but Herbert was ahead in my book on a couple issues, so I'm okay with him winning the nomination outright.  And when David Kirkham threw his support behind Herbert, he apparently lost a ton of respect from most of his supporters.

CD 3

Jason Chaffetz skates to victory, but it's a little bit telling to me that he only got 74% of the vote.  Yes, that's a decisive win, but it also suggests he's either worn out his welcome with a faction in the party, or they feel he's not living up to his rhetoric.  Something.  I want to ask around more on that.

CD 1

Rob Bishop coasts to an even easier victory.  I hear one of his opponents gave one of those insane "we must fight Satan" type speeches.

CD 2

This is one where I really wish I'd been in the room.  I haven't much attention to this race, but with last-minute accusations and one candidate calling another a bald-faced liar on the stage... They really needed a documentary crew on hand for this one.  Chris Stewart gets the nomination.  I have no informed opinion on this.

CD 4

My feeling for a long time has been that Mia Love was the one candidate that Jim Matheson did not want to run against.  Matheson has been able to easily dispose of his GOP opponents in the past, but if Love wins, she'll be the first black GOP Congresswoman in history.  And from Utah!  That means something.  But the gaffe of the night has to belong to Mark Shurtleff.  Here he is trying to help his buddy Carl Wimmer out and he calls Love a "novelty" candidate.  Alarm bells went off in my head, and apparently they did at convention too.  Shurtleff got booed, and Wimmer actually lost delegates in the next round, and so now Love has the nomination and she can focus on beating Matheson.  By Jove, I think the GOP's finally done it.  I don't know who the Dems picked to run in the 2nd, but the GOP has a very good chance of being 4-for-4 in the US Congress.

Attorney General

John Swallow and Sean Reyes go to a primary.  Good.  Personally, I'm pulling for Reyes. 

And I hear more swimming reports about the job Thomas Wright is doing herding cats.  Should he ever want to run for office, he'd probably get it.  Challenge Mike Lee in 2016, whatever he wants.  Which CD does he live in?

Those Mormon Profile Articles

Now that Mitt Romney's all but secured the Republican Party's nomination for president, we're getting another round of articles.

The New York Times profiles some missionaries from Uganda, as that's where The Book of Mormon musical takes place.  It's a well-done slice-of-life profile piece by Josh Kron, a reporter who follows them.

Town Hall's Stephen Smoot highlights the difficulties of misconceptions and media coverage of the LDS Church.

My Day at the Utah County GOP Convention

4:10am - Wake up in my hotel in Wendover.  Try to remember what happened.  Hilariously retrace my steps to see why I have a tiger.  Okay, not really.

4:30am - Drive to Sandy with my wife to pick up most of our kids.


6:45am - Part ways with wife and kids in Sandy.

7:45am - Arrive at the Utah County GOP Convention.

8:00am - Walk around the booths, take the occasional water bottle or donut.  Grab my Dan Liljenquist T-shirt and sticker.  Dan's not there yet.  I swing by the Mia Love booth but there aren't any stickers or anything. She's not there.  Most of the name people aren't there.

In there I find Brad Daw and Dana Layton, talk to them at their booths.  Didn't see a Jacob Siebach booth.  I see some faces I know, though they're rushing about.  I check people's name-tags to see if I've heard of any of them.

8:50am - I go into our district meeting, where they're reviewing all the road construction going on and what the end game should look like, then we get some UVU pub from Val Petersen.

9:00am - I duck out, look around some more.  I find Jason Chaffetz and ask him what the most recent dumb law he's gotten rid of.  He cites a bill he just passed about federal buildings.  There are 900,000 federal buildings and they did a study that determined that 75,000 are underused or no longer in use, and his bill would speed up the process to get them sold.

I find Sean Reyes and hear him talking to another delegate about how he has many years of attorney experience, whereas John Swallow has spent the majority of the past 15 years as a lobbyist or fundraiser, then Mark Shurtleff put Swallow in the AG office to set him up as his heir.  I ask Reyes about the accusation that his father was an illegal immigrant.  He responds his father was not an illegal immigrant; he was a legal immigrant who fled the Marco regime and followed the asylum laws in the US, and he points out he was against HB116.

9:20am - Back to our room.  The governor addresses us.  I paraphrase.

Gov. Herbert - Utah has 10th best business-friendly state in US.  Came to office 2.5 years ago when economy was in death spiral. As businessman, I understand the problem with regulation. I said we need to take a look at regulation, see how many we have. We have 1969 regulations in Utah.  Nearly half impact business. We put up a website to ask for feeedback. We found 368 regulations that served no public purpose and modified them.

We had 56 different improvements to make to government after leadership commission. We have lowest amount of public employees since 2000.  We are the antithesis of DC. They grow labor in face of recession. We cut labor in face of growth.  Steve Forbes said we have the best state for business. Our economy is growing at 3 times the rate of natl average. Our unemployment is under 6%. Our exports are up 41% this past year. Utah County has the fourth best economy in the nation.  Utah virtually leads the nation in every measurable faction thanks to people like you.

Question - What are you doing to get the public lands less encumbered?

GH - I am better governor because I was a county commissioner. I am better governor because I was private businessman. I'm probably a better governor because I'm from Utah county. With public lands issue, fed govt. owns the land but didn't dispose of them. We're holding federal feet to air and say a promise made is a promise that should be kept. It's a longshot, but we're pushing back. We'll litigate where necessary. As WGA vice-chair, we governors are in a bipartisan way pushing back on the encroachment of public lands.

Question - (Michael May) - There's a regulation that I have 5000 hours before I can provide security at political events. I had to decline providing security because I can't get licensed. What will you do to restore the spirit of the pioneers and get that addressed?

GH - I'll have to look into it, you obviously know more about it than I do. It's a healthy discussion and should happen in public discourse.

MM - I served seven years in military and have over 500 hours. I would think that would be enough.

GH - We should give shortcuts to military veterans, let their service count toward earned hours.

Question - If ObamaCare is overturned, what is the state health plan?

GH - We want to repeal OC and replace it with what? That's the question. We want a state-driven program. It ought not to be a one-size-fits-all system. We have low cost and high value. I created last year a summit on health care. I said let's talk about controlling costs and have high-quality service. If we can keep the costs down, we'll have more competition. I defy anyone to tell me how many regulations they have in Washington DC.  We're working in dramatic, pro-active way to solve healthcare; it should be driven by states.

Results - Layton (44%), Daw (39), Siebach (15).

Second round.

Brad Daw reports.

Our road construction has come in at $200 million under-budget.  We have some projects, like putting two lanes on highway from Spanish Fork to Payson.

Question - I've read about problems with Alpine highway system.

BD - That's not such good news. UDOT selected one company, but the other company is working on the highway project, but they are behind, over-budget, and we're fining them $15,000 a day.  Should be done in May. Next year. (I think he was kidding).

Question - When we get the public lands back, what's to stop No Trespassing signs being put up everywhere?

BD - We take it a step at a time. If we ever get to the point where it'd be a wholesale divestment of lands, we'd look at a mixed-use access. We as a state need to step up and assure that we'll use it it in proper way, but that's way down the road.

Question - What do we do 200 years from now when all our resources are all used up?

BD - We need to use them at a reasonable pace. We need to consume properly and still protect the environment. Bear in mind, we don't use it all at once.

Question - Where are we as a state with Common Core?

BD - The part's that ok, if we're collaborating with other states; I don't think people have a problem with that, but it will ultimately be our decision.  Here's the concern: back in the 1950's we imposed a federal gas tax and built the interstate system. Nowadays, now that fed govt isn't really building roads any more, but they take the gas tax, give money back to the states but with caveats. With CC and Race to the Top, the feds come in with money, but as the feds give you more money, over time, if that money's too much, the feds will says "You need to do this and this and this." We in Utah need to decide what to do. (Utah didn't get any Race to the Top money.)

Results of second ballet - Daw (51), Layton (49) - They'll go to primary.

10:30am - Main convention meeting

1495 credentialled as delegates, 1433 in attendance (96%).

Media presentation that shows candid pictures of candidates.  Orrin Hatch was the first one to get boos. The chairman (David Acheson) jumped up and said "We do not boo, and I am serious!"  From there you'd have to judge how enthusiastic or not the applause was.

Some notable results: John Valentine defeates Craig Frank with 65% of vote.  Taylor Oldroyd and Steve White were eliminated.

Republicans hold every elected office in Utah County.

10:50am - Utah County Commissioner Seat C candidates, each gets two minutes.

First is incumbent Larry Ellertson, who has a fellow commissioner and a mayor voice their support for him, and a slew of people in yellow. I assume they're family.

John D. Morris is next. He says it comes down to where we view our govt going. Do we see it it getting more involved or less involved in your lives. He thanks Mike Lee for the amazing job he's done representing us.  Lee nods. Hatch is also in attendance, but no reference. Interesting.

Lorne Grierson - I'm concerned about the growth we're experiencing. Commissioners in the past have discouraged growth. We need to plan now for the infrastructure we need.

Larry Hunter - My entourage today is you, the citizens of Utah county. I propose that districts be set up so that each commissioner is responsible for their section. I'm over food services for Utah jails. I've been able to keep it under budget, saved $100,000 last year. I'm not a talker, I'm a doer.

Everyone votes.

Speaker Becky Lockhart speaks, gets applause when she gives our goal of picking up two GOP US seats in Utah.

11:15am - Next are the candidates for US senator.

Chris Herrod - I'm concerned about the direction of this country. I was there when the Iron Curtain fell, my wife grew up in USSR. Socialism weakens the family and bankrupts a nation. I'm running becuz I don't see the urgency in DC. The difference between us and Greece is we can monetize our debt.  Russia, China, etc., are looming. We need to cut spending and get rid of any program that isn't covered by Article 1, Section 8, in the Constitution.

Jeremy Friedbaum - This is the 100th anniversary of the Titanic. It's an analogy for our country today. Natl socialism, financial decay, etc. I see Mike Lee and Jason Chaffetz as trying to steer us right, away from the iceberg. The most dangerous people on this ship are career politicians, for this luxury ship has unlimited prestige and power and profit, and they don't want to rock the boat. I want to thank Lee and Chaffetz for not endorsing our senior senator. (Audience applauds.)  (Lee turns red.)

Kevin Fisk - Did 6-year tour of Corps, drove a truck, I have more real-life experience than the other candidates. We can't do the same thing over and over and over and expect different results. We have an incumbent who's been in for 36 years and he's in the top tier; we've learned nothing. The very people who swore to uphold the Constitution are dismantling it. The biggest threat to our liberty is Congress.

Dub Lawrence - If I had 20 minutes, I'm confident I could convince you that I am the best candidate, the best leader to send to the Senator. In Utah, we don't bash our opponents, we release them with a unanimous vote of thanks for a job well done. Orrin's sweet wife is praying I am successful. She wants him home with his grandchildren in that dream home. We can't pray for change and then vote for the status quo.

Dan Liljenquist - It's time for a change in DC. My loves include economics, law and business. This race will come down to one thing - seniority, and whether you as delegates feel forced to vote in the same system. It's time to change the game, and to do so, we need to change the players. No politicians is too big to fail. I want to be there with Mike Lee and Marco Rubio and Rand Paul, etc.
(rousing applause)

Orrin Hatch - I'm for Mitt Romney, and he's for me. It's not just for friendship, he knows I'd be the first chairman of the Senate Finance Committee in 80 years.  (Holy crap, I have wahooing Hatch supporters behind me) we have to repeal ObamaCare, we have the entitlement programs have to be reformed. I've given a lot of time, I love this country, I will never let you down. Nobody walks over me.  ("WAHOO!" clapclapclap "WAHOO!" clapclapclap) God bless America. (standing, vociferous ovation from about 30 people in a room of 1500.)

Tim Aalders - I'm the big guy in the race. I am not running because I am against any of these people. I am running becus the game is broken. If it's broken, we have to change the players to change the game. Name one piece of legislation that has restored liberty and cut the natl debt. DC is putting chains of bondage on our children w/ natl debt. It's time we take back control of our govt.

David Chiu - I'm running because of who we are. I offer you our best opportunity to turn around the stereotypes of Utah. We are the most inclusive state in US. With issues like health care, life, marriage, I can magnify your voice with conservative ideals. Sen. Lee has proven there is power beyond seniority.

Loy Brunsen - I want to sing you a song. "16 trillion and what do you get, another day older and deeper in debt." We need to study the Constitution and have favorite clauses. The biggest enemy to the US are the shareholders of the Federal Reserve. A trillion in profit for them is a trillion in debt for us.

Dale Ash - Separation of church and state is not in Constitution. Flag-burning is not free speech. Pornography is not free speech. The Supreme Court has forced this on us. State powers have been gutted. We've got to take our country back.

Mike Lee gets a standing ovation from about 1/4 of the room before he even speaks.

ML - Happy to have with me my family. Pleasure to be with you today. I've served in Senate for just over a year. I was 39 when elected. I'm from Utah County, I'm not used to getting carded. Sometimes we have to assert what is rightfully ours.

And wow, he's already done.

First-round results

1402 ballots cast.

Greirson - 400
Elllertson - 613
Morris - 302
Hunter - 87

Hunter drops off.

11:45am - Candidates for 3rd Congressional district

Brian Jenkins - One of the largest obstacles is that incumbents have 98% chance of re-elections. Incumbents become fearless if they do not fear their constituents. I am begging for your vote. I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. (Overheard near me: "I don't even know why he's running.")

Lynn Wardle's wife Mary - My husband was law professor and lawyer for 30 years. He has testified before committees, was one of principle authors of Defense of Marriage Act. During the debate he has kept a civil voice, reached across the aisle. he not only will vote right and introduce bills through committees, he formed and joined Congressional caucuses.

Jason Chaffetz - DC is such a mess, it's a disaster.  in 2008 the deficit was $9 trillion, now it's $16 trillion. I'm there fighting it every single day. We've had some success, I was the leader in Congress's Cut-Cap-Balance bill, we fought against SOPA, we've got to hold the House, we've got to win back the Senate, and we've got to fire Barack Obama.  Under Pres. Romney, we'll repeal ObamaCare. It's an honor and privilege to serve you in Congress.

Gets about the same amount of standing O that Mike Lee got.

12:10pm - Candidates for 4th Congressional district

Carl Wimmer - 6 years ago I was law-enforcement officer in WVC. I'm running to defeat Jim Matheson. While he keeps voting to raise debt ceiling, Mike Lee's endorsed me, Mark Shurtleff's endorsed me. I was co-founder of Patrick Henry Caucus. It is time for Matheson to retire. I need your support.

John Valentine speaking for Steve Sandstrom - He's a former Marine, businessman. He also co-founded PHC.

Mia Love, Jay Cobb, Kenneth Gray are not here. (missing gigantic opportunity; at least have someone speak on your behalf if you can't be here)

12:30pm - Candidates for governor

Ken Sumsion - It's been honor for last 6 years to represent vast part of this county. I co-founded PHC too. We passed public land bills, so we can change how we fund education in this state.

Morgan Philpot - Last yr we were at county fair, my kid leans over and asks are you a Philpot Phan?  Two years ago we elected a conservative governor but we saw funds accepted from feds and Obama, need to get rid of Common Core, stop increasing our budgets. Leadership is not about taking credit, it's about setting an agenda.

Lane Ronnow - I'm not from Utah county; why vote for me?  There are a lot of good candidates, I'm one of them. I have a sheet written up of all my accomplishments, please go to my website and see the examples of my problem-solving ability. 800,000 in Utah had their data compromised with a computer handling health care. Education in Utah is underfunded and badly managed.

Gary Herbert - I'm glad to be home. Best reason to re-elect me, you get Jeanette as First Lady. I've got background and experience to turn things around in government. If you want to know who to vote for governor, don't talk to anyone running for governor. You talk to the business community, to the Chambers of Commerce... (he speaks fast but it was an effective speech to say he's best for the job).

David Kirkham - I'm proud to run with these candidates. Maybe we can do a little better. I'm concerned with HB116. The law's unconstitutional, and they signed it anyway. The job of governor is to protect your freedom.

Second round for UTCo commissioner

1365 - 819

Ellertson - 641
Grierson - 455
Morris - 269

12:50pm - Candidates for Attorney General

John Swallow - I'd like to introduce my wife, glad to have her with me. People tell me they love the fact I've been in Atty General's office. I've been a lawyer for 21 years. The Fed govt was never desgined Constitutionally to govern us.  We beat ObamaCare in Florida against all odds. We're going to drive the golden spike right thru the heart of OC. We will get our lands back.

Marco Diaz on behalf of Sean Reyes - Hopefully you met with him earlier, he had to go to SLC. Primarily it boils down to experience. Sean has been an attorney his entire professional career. In 2008, he was recognized as Natl young atty of the year. You need the best. Second, it comes to leadership. Finally, his integrity. I don't care how much more legal experience he has than his opponent if he doesn't have integrity.

1:00pm - Candidates for State auditor

Becky Lockhart on behalf of John Dougall - Most of us know John Dougall. He's a disrupter, and that's a good thing.

Auston Johnson - Did 4 years in Navy, Vietnam vet; got degree in accounting at USU. This is about experience. The state financial auditor dept is a financial dept. I do 100's of fraud and waste cases every year.

1:05pm - Candidates for UT Natl Committee

Nancy Lord - RNC has to elect Mitt Romney and improve presidential election process. We've seen some of the problems. With one simple rule-change, we could prevent possibility of brokered convention. (And what rule is that?) I sponsored HB477 referendum, which stopped that bill.

Don Guymon - Reagan was talked about "morning in America." I'm proud of our party. We should not be afraid to fly our colors boldly. States can do better job than Fed govt. I've been a strong advocate for states rights. I appreciate your support and look forward to representing you.

Keith Kuder - Obama has done enough with our country and doesn't need another 4 years. I live in UT county. Candidates know my name, know I worked behind the scenes for years. I was the guy in the back who went off a cliff with Philpot. I am grateful and honored to serve others. I believe that Mitt Romney can save our nation. I will work with others. (very sincere speech)

Bruce Hough - I represent you right now. We made sure we had a new chair elected (Reince Preibus) and he's done a fantastic job. One of our jobs is to raise money. Right now we have class warfare, and war on the family. We have to make Barack Obama a one-term president.

1:10pm - ...And we're done.

Huckabee's first caller a plant

Oops.

Perhaps well-times now that Rush Limbaugh's show has come under fire after Slutgate, Mike Huckabee launched his own radio show.  But the first caller to his show - "Mike from San Francisco" - was actually Mike McVay, a vice-president with the media company that owns Huckabee's show.

Huck's first guest was Mitt Romney, which I would have taken as a sign that hell had forzen over two years ago, but both men probably wouldn't mind seeing Rush go down a notch.

Leg District 60 GOP Debate

This was held on the fourth floor of the UVU library. Below is what I typed, a lot of it's paraphrasing as I'm not that fast a typer so, you know, it is what it is. It was recorded on camera by someone.  Brad Daw, Dana Layton and Jaco Siebach are your candidates.

1) 63 bills passed last year affecting public education. Is this micromanaging?



Dana Layton

LAYTON: Depends on the bills. If it's giving more power back to locals, great. Educational issues are best dealt w/ by parents and teachers at local level. That's the way our pub edu was intended to be run.

DAW: I've gone to many town-hall meetings, and many people tell me, "Can you do this and this and this?" and I say go to your school board. We talk about our fed govt too intrusive, so we can't be hypocritical and try to micromanage at state level. John Valentine passed charter-school bill that said if bond can be paid back, we'll put u under state umbrella. That was good thing. It reduces overhead.



Brad Daw

SIEBACH: I'm an educator myself, teach middle school. I appreciate the local control of education. It's parents' duty to educate child. Parents ability to choose where and how for education. I know my students, which ones struggle, which ones do well. Micromanagement destroys anything - education, industry.

2) What is the difference between a convention to propose amendments and a constitutional convention?

DAW: Alexander Hamilton said there can be no comparison. James Madison said once the Constitution is ratified, you can have a convention limited to a few topics. I would never support a Constitutional convention. As said by our FF, there is a reason on occasion for states to push back against fed govt. There are a # of those who concerned, but give me a teeny bit that says, "Ok, instead of 'no way', think of the idea that it's OK under certain circumstances, my doors are open."



Jacob Siebach

SIEBACH: In history of US, all Amendments proposed have been proposed in Congress, and most came from states saying they want it, and none with const. convention. If we as states say we want this passed, we can have our legislators do it. Legislation that says this is how a convention will be done, Congress wouldn't be bound.

LAYTON: I'm against a const. convention even under the guise of Amendment convention. Legal opinion is split on whether Const Conv could be controlled, or Article 5 convention be controlled. Even if small chance that our Const could be changed, we shouldn't risk it. I would like to see the idea die. Not worth the risk, even if .5% risk.

DAW: 1787 convention, the controlling language came from state calls, it allowed delegates to do what they did. I find it amazing that we say FF were inspired and then they broke their own document. I can point to 4 different places Madison was for it. Balanced Budget amendment wanted by states but Congress refuses.

SIEBACH: You can change rules during convention, so there's nothing to stop the delegates once to change order of operation, intention of convention, etc. That happens on every level of government.

LAYTON: I again agree w/ Jacob, but focus isn't whether convention could be controlled, but opinions are split, like Rex Lee said it would be a danger. Madison said no good would come of it, Franklin said we can't do better.

3) What is your position of safety laws vs. personal responsibility (i.e. seatbelts)?

SIEBACH: Our govt couldn't exist w/o a moral people. I believe in personal responsibility. If we have someone who says I want to pass a law to keep someone else safe, that takes away from everyone else's freedom. Socialism is done in the name of keeping everyone safe. When it comes down to it, is it worth giving up our liberty? I don't think it is.

LAYTON: I'm in the middle on this. We get on a slippery slope of parentalism, with laws micromanaging our behavior. Texting w/ driving. I hate it, but we don't need a law, becuz erratic driving is erratic driving. It doesn't matter what the cause was, it's the end result, same with hate crimes. As to moral people, many would question how moral society really is. The more immoral a society is, the more liberties we have to give up our liberties. Freedom trumps everything else.

DAW: I was in transportation committee. We had a rep bring forth a helmet law, to require bikers to wear helmets. A group said "Don't you tell us when to wear helmets." Same with seatbelts for adults. I draw line with infants in carseat. If you're old enough to take care of yourself, God bless you. That is the principle we want to govern against.

-- Moderator apologizes and realizes there were no intros.

LAYTON: I have never aspired to be politician. Thomas Paine said those who reap the blessings of freedom must go through the fatigue of supporting it. My youngest is moving out next year so I have the time to serve you. I don't believe in individual mandate. I want to fund education w/o raising taxes. I'm strongly pro-life, I keep and bear arms. Shouldn't be amnesty for illegal aliens, but the state has the right to manage the people within its borders. I think we need fewer laws, not more.

DAW: I want to thank everyone for coming. It says a lot you'll take to discuss politics, says a lot about you. I'm running for fifth term. UVU is mine. Privileged to be here. In coming nights, I would like to talk to you in individual or small groups. What's beautiful about caucus system, what I hope never goes away, is the ability to sit down w/ 120 delegates and talk about politics.

SIEBACH: I'm 30, some say I look 20, I have a wife and 4 kids. My degree's in physics. I teach middle school; I'm a small business owner; I'm an Eagle scout. Most of my brothers and father are military. I am for a small govt. When you keep bolting things onto software, it gets so unwieldy it becomes impossible to manage it. Small govt allows people to grow, innovate, expand. I believe in the family. 16th Amendment has got to go.

4) UVU is underfunded compared nationally and locally. What will you do to rectify this problem?

LAYTON: As soon as I started talking to delegates and learned of UVU's plight, the #'s show compelling story of need and inequity. I support change, but want to be a catalyst for change. I know everyone has a violin to play and a story to tell. But UVU is the 4th largest open-enrollment colleges in the country. Education stimulates the economy around us. I feel passionate about funding for this institution.

DAW: What you're seeing is a university that's busting at the seams. We committed $4 million to equity funding, of that UVU got $1.5 mil. That's every year. I moved to make sure that happened. My goal in another term is to chair committee that'd give more to UVU. We need to build a few more building to accommodate the students (I see the moderators nodding).

SIEBACH: Higher education is essential, not just to us but the US. You have to specialize becuz things get so complex, u have to have that education. UVU only gets 40% of funds from state, others get it in the 60%. It's wonderful that students could graduate with Assoc. degree.

LAYTON: I want to clarify something a little deceptive. When Brad says committee, he's on sub-committee, not actual committee. It's riding Sen. Hatch coattails to say "You have to send me back becuz I've been there so long." In a state w/ a supermajority, every rep would fight for UVU.

DAW: We have the amount of money we're supposed to spend, and our committee's job is to prioritize the spending.

SIEBACH: I'll save my rebuttal.

5) What will you do to assure UVU gets more funding? (Guess where this debate is taking place.)

DAW: Barring a catastrophe, the $50 million building planned for UVU will happen.

SIEBACH: I would support anything that continues to fund it. We know this school needs more building and office space, esp. when u consider how far behind it is in accommodating those who want to come here.

LAYTON: Any decision-maker is supposed to learn that if you put $2.5 million into something, it shouldn't be a factor in deciding whether or not the $50 million should be spent on the building. We spent $13 million on a lawsuit over the highway project, but that saved us $200 million. Things happen behind the scenes and I would actively shepherd them along.

6) Did you agree with Gov. Herbert's veto of HB363 (reproductive education bill), why or why not?

SIEBACH: No. Marriage improves families. This is not an issue of biology vs. sex ed. Biology can teach all about organs. This bill prevents graphic videos or images that happen in other states. Teaching about contraceptives or homosexuality is my right as parent, which is where true teaching should be done.

LAYTON: I support Gov's veto of bill for two reasons, neither to do with sex. Issues like that belong at local level. I don't need 104 legislators to be telling the districts what they can or can't do. What happens in classroom depends greatly on teacher. The unintended consequence was it would have killed concurrant enrollment. They couldn't get credit at colleges but they are not abstinance-only institutions. When we go about trying to legislate these particular things, we have to be so careful. There are groups who'd like to be explicit. I don't think 16-yr-olds should even know what their preferences are, but I support the veto.

DAW: I'm trying to draw the line. I don't support the veto, I supported the bill. They gave us the data and unsurprisingly enough, the regions where STDs are lowest were school districts that teach abstinence-only. One constituent had a compromise where you could teach contraception in the confines of family planning within a committed marriage. I'd be for that.

SIEBACH: It's not a biology question. It doesn't factor in with concurrent enrollment.

LAYTON: I was talking to Terry Olsen, BYU PhD, he said neither side has very much to crow about on this bill becuz they approach it from behavioral standpoint. When u teach relational issues, "if u were born tomorrow, what would u want your circumstances to be" that's more effective way to internalize principles.

7) What can you do as legislator to stimulate economy in Utah?

LAYTON: Govt can't do a whole lot to create jobs. They can do shovel-ready jobs, but the best thing they can do is get out of the way, lower regulations, etc. There's risk in trying to build a business. That's different between me and my opponents. They're programmers. I've been earning a living for 30 years w/o a paycheck.

DAW: Let me offer 3 things. We can do more to stifle economic prosperity. 1) Educated workforce. We want good jobs. We've attracted Adobe here, we've had homegrown business like Merritt Medical. 2) Limited tax environment for businesses. Taxes are necessary, but we want to make sure it's limited as possible. We have 5% flat business tax. 3) It costs much less to incorporate here than other states.

SIEBACH: Govt's role is to protect rights, not regulate. I've taken those financial risks. We need to continue to foster business, large and small. I grew up partly in Delaware, and so many corporations go there becuz of their friendly regulations.

8) Explain stance on illegal immigration and your vote on HB116.

DAW: Upfront, any new illegal immigration legislation we pass is to be the mop for the mess that the fed level left us. I supported HB116, I also supported enforcement provisions. There's identity theft, there's drug trafficking. I would love to beef up enforcement. There's a class of people here who are working. Let's have punishment fit the crime. Deporting someone away from their family to a country they may have never called home in their life doesn't fit.

SIEBACH: I support many provisions in HB116. I disgree with the amnesty part. If they commit the crime, they should go home. if we have good immigration, we want people to come here. Those people have a vested interest in this country. We have to take measures even if fed govt won't. Let's make provisions so they have to go home.

LAYTON: I'm not sure about the Constitutionality of HB116, but I support states rights to manage bodies within the boundaries. It seems like it allows illegal immigration to step to the front of the line. it's completely unfair to them to give a stamp of approval. "What do you think about immigration? What do you feel?" What i think and feel are two different things. I think the law should be followed, but I feel compassion for those people.

9) Would you ever see an instance where you'd raise taxes to balance the budget.

SIEBACH: This question is contradictory. Taxes are your accounts receivable. To balance the budget, you make do with what you have. What if we could save tax money, so that we could get to where we don't have to take any more federal money.

LAYTON: Balancing the budget can work either way. Balancing is balancing. That's the danger of Balanced Budget Amendment; there could be federally mandated tax increase. Sen. Bennett was against it. We need to live within our means. I feel fortunate to have had good financial advice.

DAW: In 8 years in SLC, I have yet to see reason to increase taxes, in fact we've lowered them several times. We put $11 million back in the rainy-day fund. We can't put off public school for a year. By putting $ back in, it keeps us from being in situation where we're out of funds. I agree, I think Balanced Budget Amendment is a gimmick.

Audience Q&A

Michael Wilson - Fed govt has ignored states rights. What can state legislature do to bring back states rights?

DAW: We can do interstate compacts. Medicaid budget has doubled. If that keeps increasing, then education has to be cut. The other way is to seek redress in calling for a convention. If we're serious about pushing back, and u have a better idea than the FF, I'll jump all over it.

SIEBACH: I agree with taking back our lands.

LAYTON: States do not have rights, people have rights. But the balance of power is way out of whack. I'm not an extremist. I'm a down-the-middle conservative. States need to assert their rights.

DAW: If we don't use interstate compacts, we take another tool off the table.

(Old Man) - Govt derives all power from the people. The fed govt is saying the states do not have the right to control their own borders. Does that mean I cannot defend myself?

LAYTON: That's why 2nd amendment is important. It creates balance of power. We delegate that responsibility to law enforcement. We saw with Katrina, lawlessless can take over in the blink of an eye. State sovereignty has been overlooked.

DAW: I agree with u on principle. We have life, libery and the pursuit of happiness. Right after that, it says govt are formed to protect those rights "with the consent of the governed." I supported bill that said if you're in your own home, you're presumed not guilty.

SIEBACH: I essentially resonate what they said. I believe in Bill of Rights. You should be able to defend your family. You should be able to protect someone else too.

Kevin Aston, Pres of Tech Educators of Utah - What's your opinion of teachers associations?

SIEBACH: Associations are fine. Each person should research and look at things. I am an educator, I love teaching my physics class.

LAYTON: I think assocations are at the root of the 1st Amendment. We have the right to pool our efforts, gather and speak our mind. Lobbyists are there to educate legislators. i don't have any ill will about associations. When it crosses over to extortion and force, and I've had experience with that in other cities. I'm proud to work in right-to-work state.

DAW: Associations have a place. I used to be in an Engineers association. When a union tries to protect someone's job, I have a problem w/ that.

Doug Tollis - Career politicians?

DAW: At the end of 8 years, if you look at it in DC years, it's quite young. It's part-time legislature. We don't make very much. There tends to be natural turnover. If someone's willing to advocate for their constituents, good.

SIEBACH: The Founders didn't put term limits on anything. I have no plan to be a full-time politician. If this person is representing me, let them represent me.

LAYTON: I don't aspire to be a career politician; I have other careers. I want to make a contribution. I think the FF inteneded the people would go and serve and then go back home. The idea of new passion and new blood in government is good for government.

George Patlin - My children are about to enter K-12. Education is road to prosperity. Utah is 46th in nation on what we spend per child per year. Brad, you've been outspoken on we're spending too much on education. << DAW: Not true!>>

LAYTON: I would love to see education funded at a much higher level, but Utah spends a larger percentage of its budget on education than most. Utah teachers do a great job stretching dollars. i went to public education. The building was awful, but the teachers are great. I don't think money's the only answer.

DAW: I'm not sure where that's coming from. Education has always been at the front of the line. This last year when we had extra money, it went to education. It's an ongoing and sacred education. What's pushing it out is we have a Medicaid budget that's pushing it out.

SIEBACH: Going off of that, we need to get off the federal dime and their mandates. We want our children to be the best that they can. Let's do more with less. maybe we have too much bureaucracy involved. We need to make sure we're working locally. School districts, school boards, etc.

Joey Smith - Would you fight for ensuring that proper time was given to each bill before it was voted on? Examples HB116 and HB477.

DAW: It's unusual for a bill of that magnitude to have the last-minute fine-tuning, but I was happy to repeal GRAMA based on the way it was pushed through.

SIEBACH: Our first idea is rarely the best. We need time to deliberate, to see if there's a better way of doing what we're doing.

LAYTON: I was under the impression Brad voted for HB477. <> I'm for transparency on all levels. I wouldn't support a measure to limit it. There are times with simple bills can go through quick, but not something of this magnitude.

JoDee Sumberg - We have the lowest student-to-administrator funding. All of our HS have same opportunity for UCAS. It's funded at state average. Alpine is funded at lowest average. How would you rectify the amount charter schools get? (I take it she is against charter schools.)

LAYTON: I need to study the issue.

DAW: I think they're great. It's 25% of replacement fund. I want to support charter schools. We have to move to equalized property tax. You'll have winners and losers.

SIEBACH: I love competition. I love charter schools.

Ann Tindell - All three of you tended for personal responsibility over safety. What if the motorcyclist gets splattered across the highway and wants someone else to pay the bill?

SIEBACH: If they're splattered across the road, there's not much to worry about. But if you ride a motorcycle, you have to have insurance. Trying to do a massive fix just kills liberty.

LAYTON: Assuming he's in the hospital, it's negligence on the individual's part. For me it's in the realm of defining it as negligence.

DAW: Jacob, auto insurance is liability, not catastrophic insurance, and trust me, we don't want a mandate. But the hospital will go after his insurance, maybe put a lien on his house, etc.

SIEBACH: I'm in no way in favor of mandate.

Jason ? - I have a friend who works for Utah and is covered by PEHP. The Parity Act, fed law, requires mental health to be treated like physical health, but PEHP is exempt from the law and denied him treatment, said he had to go to IHC. Why is it the state has the right to go thru loopholes while the rest of the private insurance can't?

LAYTON: Legislators should not be able to exempt themselves from laws they pass. Mental health is serious issue. The more brain research we do, the more we find physiological basis for crime and different behaviors.

DAW: Most insurance companies have ability to deny coverage of certain types of illnesses. I'd need to know more, it may or may not be covered. Come talk to me.

SIEBACH: I'd need further research on that, I'm not aware why things aren't covered. When you look at insurance as private industry, they can deny coverage for whatever.

-- One-minute closing comment

SIEBACH: I love the Constitution. I love my state, I love my family. I got back to indivdual rights, state sovereignty. God gave us our rightsd and we should stick to the ideals of the Founders. I'd love to be an inventor; let govt get out of the way.

LAYTON: In general, I'd say my desire is to provide good, solid, reasonable conservative representation to you. I would like to bring effectiveness and energy to the job, maybe some inter-party pushback. I'd like to repeal a bunch of laws. We need fewer laws, not more.

DAW: One of the bills I passed was a repealer that reduced the amount of laws we have on the books. My goal is to be the most successful legislator in the state. I've responded to everyone who's emailed me. Some of the best ideas for bills I've had have come from people in this room.

Utah Senator Debate

I'm a county delegate, so I was learning about county candidates tonight, but were I a state delegate, I would have attended this debate in person. I watched this streaming on Ustream, not live but I'll use the time-stamps for when it got to what.

7:03 - There are three candidates.  Chris Herrod, Orrin Hatch and Dan Liljenquist. Hatch is in the middle.  Is it just me or does that table look like it came from Pee-Wee's Playhouse?   From here on it's just easier to type Hatch, Dan and Chris.

7:05 - The streaming quality is pretty rough. This will be a challenge.

7:06 - Dan goes first, he says we need new leadership in DC.

7:07 - Hatch says he'll be the leader of the Senate Finance Committee, the most powerful committee in DC. Mitt Romney wants me there; I'll be there for him. I'm going to do it.

7:08 - Chris calls the national debt a natl security issue. We have a short window of opportunity to change the course of this country.

7:09 - 1ST QUESTION: What is your position on space exploration?

HATCH: Jake Garn and I are behind it. Obama's ruining it. Every dollar we spend in space, we get six bucks back in renovation. I don't want the Russians to have to take our astronauts into space.

CHRIS: It's appalling we have to rely on the Russians, but our problem is the national debt. I spent 3 years in the Soviet Union so it concerns me. The Russians don't have our best interest at heart.

DAN: You can't defend our country and the world w/o a strong space program. There are areas in our budget that we've known for 40 years are a problem that we've never fixed. (see what he did there?) I'll make sure we stay in space and protect our country.

HATCH: I don't need a 45-minute rebuttal (45 seconds, Senator...)

7:13 - The streaming quality is much better now.

7:14 - 2ND QUESTION - What is the greatest issue facing our nation and what would you do to solve it?

CHRIS: National debt. Look at my state legislative record. We formed Patrick Henry Caucus, made our lands an issue, fighting against fed govt to get our lands back.

DAN: Spending, by a country mile. I worked at Bain. First you fire the people who got you here. (good line) We could have a boom of energy if we'd tap our national natural resources. Our biggest problem is the entitlement problems we've ignored for 40 years. I passed the biggest entitlement reform in this state int he past couple years.

HATCH: I don't disagree w/ my colleagues. The Senate Finance Committee got us here and it's been run by Democrats and liberals my entire time in office. We've got to kill ObamaCare. (at this point let me say the reverb from the microphones has been terrible; kudos to all 3 for putting up with it.) Mitt Romney will be president, together we'll get these problems solved.

DAN: I've been all over the state. People ask me, "Dan, what's our good senator been doing?" You've been on SFC for 18 years, and youv'e expanded spending. What's going to be different next time? (applause)

HATCH: I guess you haven't seen who's been in charge of that SFC. Ernest Grisham said Hatch will be the most conservative leader of the SFC and he's doggone right. We'll get things under control, and Romney and Hatch will do it. (really marrying himself to Romney)

7:19 - Chris asks a rules questions and then we get 3RD QUESTION - Keystone Pipeline?

DAN: Explains the pipeline that'd come from Canada. Its our fed lands that have been locked up. Canada realizes they can export, but our policy has declared war on domestic oil production. Canada will now go to China. We should do everything we can to get that pipeline to come down. We need to open up our fed lands so we can produce oil as well.

HATCH: Pres. opposed Keystone even though it could have meant 100,000 jobs. We're going to turn it around. Utah is an oil-rich state. If we're able to produce our own oil, we'll lower gas prices. I'm on top of that, we're going to change it.

CHRIS: Some of the oil is already going to go to China. Keystone's question is do they spend one pipe or three? Petrol China will pass Exxon as the world's largest oil company. I've led the issue of land fights in Utah.

7:23 - Thomas Wright says we're going to take a break to adjust the mikes... (APPLAUSE!)

7:27 - 4TH QUESTION - Please xplain Common Core and do you think it'll be detremental?

CHRIS: It was initiated by states, but even if states developed it, fed govt gets a hold of it and controls the strings. Fed has said if you do CC, you can drop out of NCLB, but that means you have to do one or the other.

DAN: Education is a family and state issue. Education was never designed to be this federal way. Get rid of DOE, return money and control to states.

HATCH: If I had my way, we'd get rid of DOE. NCLB was one of Bush's first issues, I skeptically voted for it, but if I had my way, we'd get rid of the doggone thing.

CHRIS: One thing that unites us is opposition of NCLB, and yet whenever we try to get rid of it, we can't.

HATCH: I agree.

7:32 - 5TH QUESTION - What is the role of the fed govt and what will u do to reduce the trend of it becoming overly involved?

DAN: When u move so much power to DC, they maneuver to control more of your lives. It's been this generation and our US Senate that's run up the debt, that instuted ObamaCare, not a field in our lives that fed govt doesn't believe it should touch. The US Senate was designed to defend the states, I'll return power to the states.

HATCH: Just to make it clear, I didn't vote for DOE; that's wrong. I didn't vote for Fannie & Freddie, wrong, that's FreedomWorks lies. I agree with Dan; let's return power to states and families.

CHRIS: Unfortunately many think the Constitution is an antiquated document. They're wrong. My wife grew up in Soviet Union, she understands socialism leads to serfdom.

DAN: I'm not blaming one party; it's been all of us. Congress got into a game of Hungry Hungry Hippos with our money. We have spent every marble we have; it is all of our problem. We have got to fix DC, and do that, you've got to change the Senate.

HATCH: I agree we've got to change DC and we've got to change the Senate, but there's a small cadre that's been fighting for this my whole time in DC and you shouldn't blame us for what's been done by all those Democrats and liberal Republicans! (he looks angry at that one)

CHRIS: One important job of the Senator is if you don't have a majority you go out and make sure you get it. It's the 18-30 year olds that overwhelmingly went to Obama. We've got to teach our young people.

HATCH: I know I'm not supposed to get a second rebuttal but I'm going to do one anyway. I raised millions of dollars for conservatives and if it wasn't for me, we wouldn't have the conservatives we do!

7:38 - 6TH QUESTION - Hatch, you've voted for many bills that expand scope of fed govt. How can we know you'd be the right leader to reduce size and scope of fed govt?

HATCH: I've voted for very few bills that expand the size of govt. I voted against most of them. I'm the author of the proposed Balanced Budget Constitutional Amendment. I brought it to the floor 13 times. I passed it once under Reagan but the House killed it. I intend to work my guts out to get that passed. The fact is, some of us really do work hard to get this country out of these doldrums. I've voted 12,600 times in Senate; I can't look back on too many votes I regret. I have the highest position in Senate; Mitt Romney and I can turn this country around. (wow, how many times is he going drop Mitt's name?)

DAN: One of my proudest moments was watching you, Sen. Hatch, debate that amendment; I was in the gallery. I wish it would have passed too. You voted and championed Medicare Part D which added trillions to our debt. It is not lost on me that we're going to have to pay for that. You can't hold up Balanced Budget in one hand and then pass legislation that makes it impossible to pay for it in the other. (rousing audience applause)

HATCH: Wait just a second, I'm going to answer that. Don't be so enthusiastic!

CHRIS: First, I'm grateful for Hatch's service. You don't have to pass a Balanced Budget Amendment to write a balanced budget. I believe it's time for other people to have the opportunity to serve.

HATCH: Personally I believe it's time for Utah to have the opportunity and that's what I'll give them as leader of the SFC. Part D has helped thousands of seniors get prescription durgs and now people are living longer. (i.e. vote for me or seniors will die) It came in at less than it was projected to be and it came in as order of states.

7:44 - Thomas Wright: "Sen. Hatch, that was your second rebuttal, so I'm going to let Dan have a 2nd rebuttal and then I'm going to go back to the rules and one rebuttal." (Wright's doing a good job).

DAN: I don't have a problem with Part D. If it came in at 43% less than expected, that means you were expecting $22 trillion in debt and we only came in at $16. Doesn't seem like that good of a deal. It's a little exasperating to realize those debts. Soc Security and Medicare are bankrupt, and it's going to fall to my generation to pay for it. (applause)

CHRIS: It comes back to personal responsibility. I support GOP when they're right and criticize them when they're wrong. We need to correct the GOP when they're wrong, not just blindly support them.

7:46 - 7TH QUESTION - What will you do about immigration?

CHRIS: I've experienced immigration, having been married in Ukraine, I have a business partner who's a black Ethiopian Jew, a sister-in-law who's South Korean, and yet when I talk about reforming immigration, I've been called a racist, a fascist, etc. There's many things that need to be addressed. My immigration policy is the same as Mitt Romney's. (a-ha!) We need to make the front gate as wide as possible and seal off the back gate. My business partner has lost relatives becuz they were denied legal immigration. Ethiopia's standard of living is 1/15 of Mexico's. Amnesty isn't fair.

HATCH: I've done more about immigration than anyone back there. I brought the 287g program to Utah. I was able to get an immigration court in Utah. I could go on, but I know that unless we control our border, we won't be able to solve these problems. We should provide a way for them to play by the rules. No amnesty, they have to go to the back of the line.

7:50 - 8TH QUESTION - Sen. Liljenquist, why did you miss almost a quarter of the votes in the state senate?

DAN: So glad you've asked that. Some of u may have seen one of the $300,000 worth of ads by FreedomPath, making it look like i was off golfing or something. I was there working on pension reform and Medicaid reform. Millions of dollars of lobbying money against it. I was crafting, writing, fighting for those bills. If a vote was close, they'd call me back in, but all the ones I missed weren't close at all or unanimous. I was elected to get things done and those bills will save this state billions.

HATCH: With pension reform, we still owe billions, and let me tell you, I can walk and chew gum at the same time. (*crickets*) I have a 97% voting record over 36 years. (ugh, what a weak argument. You're a full-time senator; he's a part-time senator). I think it's an important issue.

CHRIS: I was going to stay silent on this, but this illustrates why it's important to have someone who's been in a state senate. There's a big difference between state senate and US senate. I will defend Dan on this. (applause) Here's the reason: in a manner of minutes you can miss 3 votes. In DC they have 20-30 minutes per vote. To say you can compare DC to the state is simply unfair.

HATCH: I still think- I still think-! I still think you're elected to vote. (breaking the rules again...)

DAN: I've received natl awards for state legislator of the year. You're not just there to vote; you're there to lead. That's what I did. I did not make this an issue. How many votes did you miss this week, this year? By my count, you've missed 30% of the votes this year.

HATCH: No I haven't.

7:55 - 9TH QUESTION - from Thomas Wright, "This is my question. What is your favorite part of the GOP platform and why?"

CHRIS: The part about the Constitution and limited govt. I spent 5 of my years outside the US. It's truly an inspired document. Upholding its principles is by far the most important part.

DAN: It's hard to argue with this. It's neat to swear to uphold the Constitution. The govt doesn't get to grant rights. It doesn't get to redistribute wealth. The GOP is true to that platform and those principles. We were the party of the liberation of slaves, the party of fiscal responsibility. I support the platform.

HATCH: I want to support my colleagues, I agree with them 100%. I want to get unrid of unconstitutional bills like ObamaCare, but they covered it very well.

7:58 - 10TH QUESTION - Is there a difference between leadership and seniority, and if so, what's the difference?

DAN: Absolutely. This race may come down to this one question. Do we feel forced to vote for the same people into the same system over and over, or is it time for new leaders in DC? Leadership trumps seniority every time. I think everyone here is grateful in 1976 when the argument was made that this state couldn't afford to have two freshman Senators, that they rejected it and elected [Hatch] to office. He's done a fantastic job. (That'll be on Hatch's next mailer: "He's done a fantastic job." - Sen. Dan Liljenquist) But it's time to send new leaders. I have the skills and ability to change DC and I intend to do so.

HATCH: I hardly ever use the word seniority becuz there's good seniority and bad seniority. Let me bring it home to u. I talk about experience, ability to bring people together back there. In 1989, when they were closwing bases, I'm glad Jake Garn and I had 15 years of experience in the Senate. If we'd had two freshman senators, they would have closed Hill Air Force Base. (exactly the argument one guy made at our precinct's caucus)

CHRIS: Why were we even in front of the Supreme Court last week? It was a sophomore legislator (Wimmer) that passed that bill that pushed the fight, despite resistance to the bill. You can get individual together and have that. The seniority system in DC is one of the biggest problems. Leadership elections are every bit as important as seniority.

DAN: You and Jake Garn pushed against Jimmy Carter when he tried to close it, but you did that it your first term. There is no politician in this country that is too big to fail. You did a fantastic job, especially in your first term.

HATCH: I'm in a position to benefit Utah in a fantastic way. I agree freshman senators can be effective. We have Rand Paul and Ron Johnson, and you could name a couple others... (you can tell he knows he's leaving someone out)... and Mike Lee! (there it is), but if the movement in 1989 had happened in our first term, we couldn't have stopped it. The issue will come up again in 2013 and 2015.

CHRIS: We need to talk about good governance. Take the politics out of allocation. Texas and California lost bases, Utah didn't, that's good governance, and HAFB will stay open regardless.

8:05 - 11TH QUESTION - What will you do to promote Utah's autonomy?

HATCH: let me go back and make sure I've terrified enough military personnel and seniors that HAFB will absolutely close unless you give me a seventh term. Experience does count. Now for the economy. 1) Kill ObamaCare. 2) Pass a balanced budget Amendment. 3) Reform entitlements. 4) Control the spending! All of those problems are dealt with in the SFC and I intend to be Chairman!

CHRIS: I'm proudest of the land bill I passed that said the fed govt doesn't have the right to tell you how to grow your own food. Feds said they had ability to regulate personal farms and gardens. We need to push back and make sure the state remains sovereign.

DAN: I ran on entitlement reform, and I passed it on Medicaid. We are the first state in the country to cap Medicaid spending and return it to the states. It's cause celebre to say "now is the time to reform entitltements. I've done it.

HATCH: There's a real difference between having 75% GOP control in state senate and only having one or two more in the Senate. When I'm in the SFC, I'll get things done.

CHRIS: I'll toot my own horn a little more. The PHC and I helped get our lands back. The Fed govt is forbidden to own more then ten miles square... I'll have to explain it later, I'm out of time.

DAN: (suddenly his mike is off and he talks for a while so I had a hard time understanding him but apparently the audience could hear it because the applause was deafening. but there was something about him passing his Medicaid bill unanimously)

HATCH: I would really like that.

8:11 - 12TH QUESTION - HAFB is the largest employer in Utah. What could you do to keep it from closing.

CHRIS: It comes back to good governance. If HAFB wasn't the best base, we should be willing to sacrifice, but it's one of the most valuable bases in the nation. We have to take the politics out of it. If we rely on one individual to keep the base, what happens when that individual leaves? We have to have good governance.

DAN: (holy crap, it's just his mike. Sorry, I can't understand what's he saying, then suddenly it's loud) HAFB is the most relevant base in the country; it will not be going away.

HATCH: Jim Hansen has said all over Utah that you'd better have hatch if you want to keep HAFB. Guess who comes when I call to keep HAFB. New York or California would steal it in a NY minute. I fight every single say in the Senate to keep it.

CHRIS: Leadership is more important as seniority. Mitch McConnell needs to no longer be leader. I will ask whoever gets my votes two things. 1) Get rid of seniority system. 2) Make sure all proper procedures are followed on base closings. (applause)

DAN: I live in Davis County. I know the value of Hill. Hatch & Garn defended Hill in their 1st terms. Rob Bishop sits on the Armed Services committee. We can keep Hill safe. To argue that you have to send someone back for their 37th thru 42nd year in the Senate... The Senate has shown freshmen Senators can get things done. We can protect Hill.

8:16 - 13TH QUESTION - How would you work with UT legislature to further states rights?

DAN: That's one of the main reasons I'm running. We've been blackmailed by our own money for far too long. I have the majority of state senators endorsing me openly becuz we don't have the relationship with our natl Senators that we should. I will work with UT legislature to ensure states rights.

HATCH: I'll work with our state legislature. I want to commend these two young men for the work they've done. We got to bring Utah to the forefront.

CHRIS: Thank you, Sen. Hatch. At the age of 46, it's been a while since I've been called a young man so I appreciate it. This is one of those things, it's difficult to talk about our record in one minute. We formed the PHC three years ago, got the movement started nationwide. I truly believe that states are the solution to the problem. Put those powers that US senators have back to Utah.

DAN: One experience I want to share. Hatch called to congratulate me on passing pension reform. I've lectured in over 40 states on how to do their states' pension reform. hatch put out a mailer earlier this year on how he's going to pass federal legislation telling states how to reform their pensions. He didn't talk to a single member of the Utah legislature, didn't talk to me, to the governor. It's not up to the fed govt to tell us how to reform our pensions; we've already done it.

HATCH: State leaders have been in my office many times. We've always taken their suggestions. I pay strict attention to what our state senators do. I'm proud of our state. I'm proud of (missed his name) and Ken Ivory.

CHRIS: Look at the lands bill I passed with Ken Sumsion. Our Founding Fathers recognized the fed govt should not own that much land, it would have too much power.

8:23 - Thomas Wright thanks some people, then let's them give their closing arguments.

CHRIS: I was in former USSR, and I saw two cops harrassing two children selling bread, and they were arrested. i followed those cops, then I was picked up and hauled to the station. They must have thought I was the biscuit pimp, but I saw that I couldn't solve all the problem of Soviet corruption, but I promised myself that if I saw those problems arise here, I would stand up. We do live in the day where we have to pledge our lives and our sacred honor. if you send me back to DC, I will stand up for your inalienable rights and the great state of Utah.

HATCH: Look, this is definitely going to be my last term. (some giggles) No it is. But it'll be the best doggone six years you've ever seen. Mitt Romney is making sure I get there. He understands the importance of the chair of SFC. They wouldn't dare take me on for HAFB. 60% of spending goes through that committee. Mitt Romney wants me there.

DAN: Outside of my family and religion, I have three passions: economics, law, business. I worked at bain and I worked on an airline turnaround. I did similar work at ACS. (Whoa, he did? I'd like to know more on that.) I used my skills in legislature, and DC needs a turnaround team. I think I can lead and make a difference.

And we're done.

I really liked and appreciated the chance to hear these candidates and see them together.

I'd say Dan Liljenquist won the debate, Chris Herrod was a very close second, and Orrin Hatch was a distant third.

Dan did a good job of demonstrating how freshmen can accomplish a lot in a short amount of time, and he did the best at going after hatch and illustrating how wrong it is to say we have to give a senator seven six-year terms before he can accomplish anything.

I'd been turned off by some Chris Herrod supporters (most of them anonymous online folk, granted), but I was impressed with him. Seems like a good guy, interesting background, classy. Sure, it's one debate, but I could see Dan or Chris as our next US Senator from Utah.

Orrin Hatch played on people's fears tonight. Re-elect me or you're doomed. Hill Air Force Base will vanish. I will have the power if you send me back. It feels like emotional blackmail.  And he illustrated his power by boasting about who he's summoned to his office, or interrupting Dan, or breaking the debate rules. His "I can walk and chew gum at the same time" line was a ka-thud.

And if Thomas Wright decided he wanted to run in 2014 for, say, US Congressman of whatever district he lives in, he'd do quite well.