7:03 - There are three candidates. Chris Herrod, Orrin Hatch and Dan Liljenquist. Hatch is in the middle. Is it just me or does that table look like it came from Pee-Wee's Playhouse? From here on it's just easier to type Hatch, Dan and Chris.
7:05 - The streaming quality is pretty rough. This will be a challenge.
7:06 - Dan goes first, he says we need new leadership in DC.
7:07 - Hatch says he'll be the leader of the Senate Finance Committee, the most powerful committee in DC. Mitt Romney wants me there; I'll be there for him. I'm going to do it.
7:08 - Chris calls the national debt a natl security issue. We have a short window of opportunity to change the course of this country.
7:09 - 1ST QUESTION: What is your position on space exploration?
HATCH: Jake Garn and I are behind it. Obama's ruining it. Every dollar we spend in space, we get six bucks back in renovation. I don't want the Russians to have to take our astronauts into space.
CHRIS: It's appalling we have to rely on the Russians, but our problem is the national debt. I spent 3 years in the Soviet Union so it concerns me. The Russians don't have our best interest at heart.
DAN: You can't defend our country and the world w/o a strong space program. There are areas in our budget that we've known for 40 years are a problem that we've never fixed. (see what he did there?) I'll make sure we stay in space and protect our country.
HATCH: I don't need a 45-minute rebuttal (45 seconds, Senator...)
7:13 - The streaming quality is much better now.
7:14 - 2ND QUESTION - What is the greatest issue facing our nation and what would you do to solve it?
CHRIS: National debt. Look at my state legislative record. We formed Patrick Henry Caucus, made our lands an issue, fighting against fed govt to get our lands back.
DAN: Spending, by a country mile. I worked at Bain. First you fire the people who got you here. (good line) We could have a boom of energy if we'd tap our national natural resources. Our biggest problem is the entitlement problems we've ignored for 40 years. I passed the biggest entitlement reform in this state int he past couple years.
HATCH: I don't disagree w/ my colleagues. The Senate Finance Committee got us here and it's been run by Democrats and liberals my entire time in office. We've got to kill ObamaCare. (at this point let me say the reverb from the microphones has been terrible; kudos to all 3 for putting up with it.) Mitt Romney will be president, together we'll get these problems solved.
DAN: I've been all over the state. People ask me, "Dan, what's our good senator been doing?" You've been on SFC for 18 years, and youv'e expanded spending. What's going to be different next time? (applause)
HATCH: I guess you haven't seen who's been in charge of that SFC. Ernest Grisham said Hatch will be the most conservative leader of the SFC and he's doggone right. We'll get things under control, and Romney and Hatch will do it. (really marrying himself to Romney)
7:19 - Chris asks a rules questions and then we get 3RD QUESTION - Keystone Pipeline?
DAN: Explains the pipeline that'd come from Canada. Its our fed lands that have been locked up. Canada realizes they can export, but our policy has declared war on domestic oil production. Canada will now go to China. We should do everything we can to get that pipeline to come down. We need to open up our fed lands so we can produce oil as well.
HATCH: Pres. opposed Keystone even though it could have meant 100,000 jobs. We're going to turn it around. Utah is an oil-rich state. If we're able to produce our own oil, we'll lower gas prices. I'm on top of that, we're going to change it.
CHRIS: Some of the oil is already going to go to China. Keystone's question is do they spend one pipe or three? Petrol China will pass Exxon as the world's largest oil company. I've led the issue of land fights in Utah.
7:23 - Thomas Wright says we're going to take a break to adjust the mikes... (APPLAUSE!)
7:27 - 4TH QUESTION - Please xplain Common Core and do you think it'll be detremental?
CHRIS: It was initiated by states, but even if states developed it, fed govt gets a hold of it and controls the strings. Fed has said if you do CC, you can drop out of NCLB, but that means you have to do one or the other.
DAN: Education is a family and state issue. Education was never designed to be this federal way. Get rid of DOE, return money and control to states.
HATCH: If I had my way, we'd get rid of DOE. NCLB was one of Bush's first issues, I skeptically voted for it, but if I had my way, we'd get rid of the doggone thing.
CHRIS: One thing that unites us is opposition of NCLB, and yet whenever we try to get rid of it, we can't.
HATCH: I agree.
7:32 - 5TH QUESTION - What is the role of the fed govt and what will u do to reduce the trend of it becoming overly involved?
DAN: When u move so much power to DC, they maneuver to control more of your lives. It's been this generation and our US Senate that's run up the debt, that instuted ObamaCare, not a field in our lives that fed govt doesn't believe it should touch. The US Senate was designed to defend the states, I'll return power to the states.HATCH: Just to make it clear, I didn't vote for DOE; that's wrong. I didn't vote for Fannie & Freddie, wrong, that's FreedomWorks lies. I agree with Dan; let's return power to states and families.
CHRIS: Unfortunately many think the Constitution is an antiquated document. They're wrong. My wife grew up in Soviet Union, she understands socialism leads to serfdom.
DAN: I'm not blaming one party; it's been all of us. Congress got into a game of Hungry Hungry Hippos with our money. We have spent every marble we have; it is all of our problem. We have got to fix DC, and do that, you've got to change the Senate.
HATCH: I agree we've got to change DC and we've got to change the Senate, but there's a small cadre that's been fighting for this my whole time in DC and you shouldn't blame us for what's been done by all those Democrats and liberal Republicans! (he looks angry at that one)
CHRIS: One important job of the Senator is if you don't have a majority you go out and make sure you get it. It's the 18-30 year olds that overwhelmingly went to Obama. We've got to teach our young people.
HATCH: I know I'm not supposed to get a second rebuttal but I'm going to do one anyway. I raised millions of dollars for conservatives and if it wasn't for me, we wouldn't have the conservatives we do!
7:38 - 6TH QUESTION - Hatch, you've voted for many bills that expand scope of fed govt. How can we know you'd be the right leader to reduce size and scope of fed govt?
HATCH: I've voted for very few bills that expand the size of govt. I voted against most of them. I'm the author of the proposed Balanced Budget Constitutional Amendment. I brought it to the floor 13 times. I passed it once under Reagan but the House killed it. I intend to work my guts out to get that passed. The fact is, some of us really do work hard to get this country out of these doldrums. I've voted 12,600 times in Senate; I can't look back on too many votes I regret. I have the highest position in Senate; Mitt Romney and I can turn this country around. (wow, how many times is he going drop Mitt's name?)
DAN: One of my proudest moments was watching you, Sen. Hatch, debate that amendment; I was in the gallery. I wish it would have passed too. You voted and championed Medicare Part D which added trillions to our debt. It is not lost on me that we're going to have to pay for that. You can't hold up Balanced Budget in one hand and then pass legislation that makes it impossible to pay for it in the other. (rousing audience applause)
HATCH: Wait just a second, I'm going to answer that. Don't be so enthusiastic!
CHRIS: First, I'm grateful for Hatch's service. You don't have to pass a Balanced Budget Amendment to write a balanced budget. I believe it's time for other people to have the opportunity to serve.
HATCH: Personally I believe it's time for Utah to have the opportunity and that's what I'll give them as leader of the SFC. Part D has helped thousands of seniors get prescription durgs and now people are living longer. (i.e. vote for me or seniors will die) It came in at less than it was projected to be and it came in as order of states.
7:44 - Thomas Wright: "Sen. Hatch, that was your second rebuttal, so I'm going to let Dan have a 2nd rebuttal and then I'm going to go back to the rules and one rebuttal." (Wright's doing a good job).
DAN: I don't have a problem with Part D. If it came in at 43% less than expected, that means you were expecting $22 trillion in debt and we only came in at $16. Doesn't seem like that good of a deal. It's a little exasperating to realize those debts. Soc Security and Medicare are bankrupt, and it's going to fall to my generation to pay for it. (applause)
CHRIS: It comes back to personal responsibility. I support GOP when they're right and criticize them when they're wrong. We need to correct the GOP when they're wrong, not just blindly support them.
7:46 - 7TH QUESTION - What will you do about immigration?
CHRIS: I've experienced immigration, having been married in Ukraine, I have a business partner who's a black Ethiopian Jew, a sister-in-law who's South Korean, and yet when I talk about reforming immigration, I've been called a racist, a fascist, etc. There's many things that need to be addressed. My immigration policy is the same as Mitt Romney's. (a-ha!) We need to make the front gate as wide as possible and seal off the back gate. My business partner has lost relatives becuz they were denied legal immigration. Ethiopia's standard of living is 1/15 of Mexico's. Amnesty isn't fair.
HATCH: I've done more about immigration than anyone back there. I brought the 287g program to Utah. I was able to get an immigration court in Utah. I could go on, but I know that unless we control our border, we won't be able to solve these problems. We should provide a way for them to play by the rules. No amnesty, they have to go to the back of the line.
7:50 - 8TH QUESTION - Sen. Liljenquist, why did you miss almost a quarter of the votes in the state senate?
DAN: So glad you've asked that. Some of u may have seen one of the $300,000 worth of ads by FreedomPath, making it look like i was off golfing or something. I was there working on pension reform and Medicaid reform. Millions of dollars of lobbying money against it. I was crafting, writing, fighting for those bills. If a vote was close, they'd call me back in, but all the ones I missed weren't close at all or unanimous. I was elected to get things done and those bills will save this state billions.
HATCH: With pension reform, we still owe billions, and let me tell you, I can walk and chew gum at the same time. (*crickets*) I have a 97% voting record over 36 years. (ugh, what a weak argument. You're a full-time senator; he's a part-time senator). I think it's an important issue.
CHRIS: I was going to stay silent on this, but this illustrates why it's important to have someone who's been in a state senate. There's a big difference between state senate and US senate. I will defend Dan on this. (applause) Here's the reason: in a manner of minutes you can miss 3 votes. In DC they have 20-30 minutes per vote. To say you can compare DC to the state is simply unfair.
HATCH: I still think- I still think-! I still think you're elected to vote. (breaking the rules again...)
DAN: I've received natl awards for state legislator of the year. You're not just there to vote; you're there to lead. That's what I did. I did not make this an issue. How many votes did you miss this week, this year? By my count, you've missed 30% of the votes this year.
HATCH: No I haven't.
7:55 - 9TH QUESTION - from Thomas Wright, "This is my question. What is your favorite part of the GOP platform and why?"
CHRIS: The part about the Constitution and limited govt. I spent 5 of my years outside the US. It's truly an inspired document. Upholding its principles is by far the most important part.
DAN: It's hard to argue with this. It's neat to swear to uphold the Constitution. The govt doesn't get to grant rights. It doesn't get to redistribute wealth. The GOP is true to that platform and those principles. We were the party of the liberation of slaves, the party of fiscal responsibility. I support the platform.
HATCH: I want to support my colleagues, I agree with them 100%. I want to get unrid of unconstitutional bills like ObamaCare, but they covered it very well.
7:58 - 10TH QUESTION - Is there a difference between leadership and seniority, and if so, what's the difference?
DAN: Absolutely. This race may come down to this one question. Do we feel forced to vote for the same people into the same system over and over, or is it time for new leaders in DC? Leadership trumps seniority every time. I think everyone here is grateful in 1976 when the argument was made that this state couldn't afford to have two freshman Senators, that they rejected it and elected [Hatch] to office. He's done a fantastic job. (That'll be on Hatch's next mailer: "He's done a fantastic job." - Sen. Dan Liljenquist) But it's time to send new leaders. I have the skills and ability to change DC and I intend to do so.
HATCH: I hardly ever use the word seniority becuz there's good seniority and bad seniority. Let me bring it home to u. I talk about experience, ability to bring people together back there. In 1989, when they were closwing bases, I'm glad Jake Garn and I had 15 years of experience in the Senate. If we'd had two freshman senators, they would have closed Hill Air Force Base. (exactly the argument one guy made at our precinct's caucus)
CHRIS: Why were we even in front of the Supreme Court last week? It was a sophomore legislator (Wimmer) that passed that bill that pushed the fight, despite resistance to the bill. You can get individual together and have that. The seniority system in DC is one of the biggest problems. Leadership elections are every bit as important as seniority.
DAN: You and Jake Garn pushed against Jimmy Carter when he tried to close it, but you did that it your first term. There is no politician in this country that is too big to fail. You did a fantastic job, especially in your first term.
HATCH: I'm in a position to benefit Utah in a fantastic way. I agree freshman senators can be effective. We have Rand Paul and Ron Johnson, and you could name a couple others... (you can tell he knows he's leaving someone out)... and Mike Lee! (there it is), but if the movement in 1989 had happened in our first term, we couldn't have stopped it. The issue will come up again in 2013 and 2015.
CHRIS: We need to talk about good governance. Take the politics out of allocation. Texas and California lost bases, Utah didn't, that's good governance, and HAFB will stay open regardless.
8:05 - 11TH QUESTION - What will you do to promote Utah's autonomy?
HATCH: let me go back and make sure I've terrified enough military personnel and seniors that HAFB will absolutely close unless you give me a seventh term. Experience does count. Now for the economy. 1) Kill ObamaCare. 2) Pass a balanced budget Amendment. 3) Reform entitlements. 4) Control the spending! All of those problems are dealt with in the SFC and I intend to be Chairman!
CHRIS: I'm proudest of the land bill I passed that said the fed govt doesn't have the right to tell you how to grow your own food. Feds said they had ability to regulate personal farms and gardens. We need to push back and make sure the state remains sovereign.
DAN: I ran on entitlement reform, and I passed it on Medicaid. We are the first state in the country to cap Medicaid spending and return it to the states. It's cause celebre to say "now is the time to reform entitltements. I've done it.
HATCH: There's a real difference between having 75% GOP control in state senate and only having one or two more in the Senate. When I'm in the SFC, I'll get things done.
CHRIS: I'll toot my own horn a little more. The PHC and I helped get our lands back. The Fed govt is forbidden to own more then ten miles square... I'll have to explain it later, I'm out of time.
DAN: (suddenly his mike is off and he talks for a while so I had a hard time understanding him but apparently the audience could hear it because the applause was deafening. but there was something about him passing his Medicaid bill unanimously)
HATCH: I would really like that.
8:11 - 12TH QUESTION - HAFB is the largest employer in Utah. What could you do to keep it from closing.
CHRIS: It comes back to good governance. If HAFB wasn't the best base, we should be willing to sacrifice, but it's one of the most valuable bases in the nation. We have to take the politics out of it. If we rely on one individual to keep the base, what happens when that individual leaves? We have to have good governance.
DAN: (holy crap, it's just his mike. Sorry, I can't understand what's he saying, then suddenly it's loud) HAFB is the most relevant base in the country; it will not be going away.
HATCH: Jim Hansen has said all over Utah that you'd better have hatch if you want to keep HAFB. Guess who comes when I call to keep HAFB. New York or California would steal it in a NY minute. I fight every single say in the Senate to keep it.
CHRIS: Leadership is more important as seniority. Mitch McConnell needs to no longer be leader. I will ask whoever gets my votes two things. 1) Get rid of seniority system. 2) Make sure all proper procedures are followed on base closings. (applause)
DAN: I live in Davis County. I know the value of Hill. Hatch & Garn defended Hill in their 1st terms. Rob Bishop sits on the Armed Services committee. We can keep Hill safe. To argue that you have to send someone back for their 37th thru 42nd year in the Senate... The Senate has shown freshmen Senators can get things done. We can protect Hill.
8:16 - 13TH QUESTION - How would you work with UT legislature to further states rights?
DAN: That's one of the main reasons I'm running. We've been blackmailed by our own money for far too long. I have the majority of state senators endorsing me openly becuz we don't have the relationship with our natl Senators that we should. I will work with UT legislature to ensure states rights.
HATCH: I'll work with our state legislature. I want to commend these two young men for the work they've done. We got to bring Utah to the forefront.
CHRIS: Thank you, Sen. Hatch. At the age of 46, it's been a while since I've been called a young man so I appreciate it. This is one of those things, it's difficult to talk about our record in one minute. We formed the PHC three years ago, got the movement started nationwide. I truly believe that states are the solution to the problem. Put those powers that US senators have back to Utah.
DAN: One experience I want to share. Hatch called to congratulate me on passing pension reform. I've lectured in over 40 states on how to do their states' pension reform. hatch put out a mailer earlier this year on how he's going to pass federal legislation telling states how to reform their pensions. He didn't talk to a single member of the Utah legislature, didn't talk to me, to the governor. It's not up to the fed govt to tell us how to reform our pensions; we've already done it.
HATCH: State leaders have been in my office many times. We've always taken their suggestions. I pay strict attention to what our state senators do. I'm proud of our state. I'm proud of (missed his name) and Ken Ivory.
CHRIS: Look at the lands bill I passed with Ken Sumsion. Our Founding Fathers recognized the fed govt should not own that much land, it would have too much power.8:23 - Thomas Wright thanks some people, then let's them give their closing arguments.
CHRIS: I was in former USSR, and I saw two cops harrassing two children selling bread, and they were arrested. i followed those cops, then I was picked up and hauled to the station. They must have thought I was the biscuit pimp, but I saw that I couldn't solve all the problem of Soviet corruption, but I promised myself that if I saw those problems arise here, I would stand up. We do live in the day where we have to pledge our lives and our sacred honor. if you send me back to DC, I will stand up for your inalienable rights and the great state of Utah.
HATCH: Look, this is definitely going to be my last term. (some giggles) No it is. But it'll be the best doggone six years you've ever seen. Mitt Romney is making sure I get there. He understands the importance of the chair of SFC. They wouldn't dare take me on for HAFB. 60% of spending goes through that committee. Mitt Romney wants me there.DAN: Outside of my family and religion, I have three passions: economics, law, business. I worked at bain and I worked on an airline turnaround. I did similar work at ACS. (Whoa, he did? I'd like to know more on that.) I used my skills in legislature, and DC needs a turnaround team. I think I can lead and make a difference.
And we're done.
I really liked and appreciated the chance to hear these candidates and see them together.
I'd say Dan Liljenquist won the debate, Chris Herrod was a very close second, and Orrin Hatch was a distant third.
Dan did a good job of demonstrating how freshmen can accomplish a lot in a short amount of time, and he did the best at going after hatch and illustrating how wrong it is to say we have to give a senator seven six-year terms before he can accomplish anything.
I'd been turned off by some Chris Herrod supporters (most of them anonymous online folk, granted), but I was impressed with him. Seems like a good guy, interesting background, classy. Sure, it's one debate, but I could see Dan or Chris as our next US Senator from Utah.
Orrin Hatch played on people's fears tonight. Re-elect me or you're doomed. Hill Air Force Base will vanish. I will have the power if you send me back. It feels like emotional blackmail. And he illustrated his power by boasting about who he's summoned to his office, or interrupting Dan, or breaking the debate rules. His "I can walk and chew gum at the same time" line was a ka-thud.
And if Thomas Wright decided he wanted to run in 2014 for, say, US Congressman of whatever district he lives in, he'd do quite well.
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