Leg District 60 GOP Debate

This was held on the fourth floor of the UVU library. Below is what I typed, a lot of it's paraphrasing as I'm not that fast a typer so, you know, it is what it is. It was recorded on camera by someone.  Brad Daw, Dana Layton and Jaco Siebach are your candidates.

1) 63 bills passed last year affecting public education. Is this micromanaging?



Dana Layton

LAYTON: Depends on the bills. If it's giving more power back to locals, great. Educational issues are best dealt w/ by parents and teachers at local level. That's the way our pub edu was intended to be run.

DAW: I've gone to many town-hall meetings, and many people tell me, "Can you do this and this and this?" and I say go to your school board. We talk about our fed govt too intrusive, so we can't be hypocritical and try to micromanage at state level. John Valentine passed charter-school bill that said if bond can be paid back, we'll put u under state umbrella. That was good thing. It reduces overhead.



Brad Daw

SIEBACH: I'm an educator myself, teach middle school. I appreciate the local control of education. It's parents' duty to educate child. Parents ability to choose where and how for education. I know my students, which ones struggle, which ones do well. Micromanagement destroys anything - education, industry.

2) What is the difference between a convention to propose amendments and a constitutional convention?

DAW: Alexander Hamilton said there can be no comparison. James Madison said once the Constitution is ratified, you can have a convention limited to a few topics. I would never support a Constitutional convention. As said by our FF, there is a reason on occasion for states to push back against fed govt. There are a # of those who concerned, but give me a teeny bit that says, "Ok, instead of 'no way', think of the idea that it's OK under certain circumstances, my doors are open."



Jacob Siebach

SIEBACH: In history of US, all Amendments proposed have been proposed in Congress, and most came from states saying they want it, and none with const. convention. If we as states say we want this passed, we can have our legislators do it. Legislation that says this is how a convention will be done, Congress wouldn't be bound.

LAYTON: I'm against a const. convention even under the guise of Amendment convention. Legal opinion is split on whether Const Conv could be controlled, or Article 5 convention be controlled. Even if small chance that our Const could be changed, we shouldn't risk it. I would like to see the idea die. Not worth the risk, even if .5% risk.

DAW: 1787 convention, the controlling language came from state calls, it allowed delegates to do what they did. I find it amazing that we say FF were inspired and then they broke their own document. I can point to 4 different places Madison was for it. Balanced Budget amendment wanted by states but Congress refuses.

SIEBACH: You can change rules during convention, so there's nothing to stop the delegates once to change order of operation, intention of convention, etc. That happens on every level of government.

LAYTON: I again agree w/ Jacob, but focus isn't whether convention could be controlled, but opinions are split, like Rex Lee said it would be a danger. Madison said no good would come of it, Franklin said we can't do better.

3) What is your position of safety laws vs. personal responsibility (i.e. seatbelts)?

SIEBACH: Our govt couldn't exist w/o a moral people. I believe in personal responsibility. If we have someone who says I want to pass a law to keep someone else safe, that takes away from everyone else's freedom. Socialism is done in the name of keeping everyone safe. When it comes down to it, is it worth giving up our liberty? I don't think it is.

LAYTON: I'm in the middle on this. We get on a slippery slope of parentalism, with laws micromanaging our behavior. Texting w/ driving. I hate it, but we don't need a law, becuz erratic driving is erratic driving. It doesn't matter what the cause was, it's the end result, same with hate crimes. As to moral people, many would question how moral society really is. The more immoral a society is, the more liberties we have to give up our liberties. Freedom trumps everything else.

DAW: I was in transportation committee. We had a rep bring forth a helmet law, to require bikers to wear helmets. A group said "Don't you tell us when to wear helmets." Same with seatbelts for adults. I draw line with infants in carseat. If you're old enough to take care of yourself, God bless you. That is the principle we want to govern against.

-- Moderator apologizes and realizes there were no intros.

LAYTON: I have never aspired to be politician. Thomas Paine said those who reap the blessings of freedom must go through the fatigue of supporting it. My youngest is moving out next year so I have the time to serve you. I don't believe in individual mandate. I want to fund education w/o raising taxes. I'm strongly pro-life, I keep and bear arms. Shouldn't be amnesty for illegal aliens, but the state has the right to manage the people within its borders. I think we need fewer laws, not more.

DAW: I want to thank everyone for coming. It says a lot you'll take to discuss politics, says a lot about you. I'm running for fifth term. UVU is mine. Privileged to be here. In coming nights, I would like to talk to you in individual or small groups. What's beautiful about caucus system, what I hope never goes away, is the ability to sit down w/ 120 delegates and talk about politics.

SIEBACH: I'm 30, some say I look 20, I have a wife and 4 kids. My degree's in physics. I teach middle school; I'm a small business owner; I'm an Eagle scout. Most of my brothers and father are military. I am for a small govt. When you keep bolting things onto software, it gets so unwieldy it becomes impossible to manage it. Small govt allows people to grow, innovate, expand. I believe in the family. 16th Amendment has got to go.

4) UVU is underfunded compared nationally and locally. What will you do to rectify this problem?

LAYTON: As soon as I started talking to delegates and learned of UVU's plight, the #'s show compelling story of need and inequity. I support change, but want to be a catalyst for change. I know everyone has a violin to play and a story to tell. But UVU is the 4th largest open-enrollment colleges in the country. Education stimulates the economy around us. I feel passionate about funding for this institution.

DAW: What you're seeing is a university that's busting at the seams. We committed $4 million to equity funding, of that UVU got $1.5 mil. That's every year. I moved to make sure that happened. My goal in another term is to chair committee that'd give more to UVU. We need to build a few more building to accommodate the students (I see the moderators nodding).

SIEBACH: Higher education is essential, not just to us but the US. You have to specialize becuz things get so complex, u have to have that education. UVU only gets 40% of funds from state, others get it in the 60%. It's wonderful that students could graduate with Assoc. degree.

LAYTON: I want to clarify something a little deceptive. When Brad says committee, he's on sub-committee, not actual committee. It's riding Sen. Hatch coattails to say "You have to send me back becuz I've been there so long." In a state w/ a supermajority, every rep would fight for UVU.

DAW: We have the amount of money we're supposed to spend, and our committee's job is to prioritize the spending.

SIEBACH: I'll save my rebuttal.

5) What will you do to assure UVU gets more funding? (Guess where this debate is taking place.)

DAW: Barring a catastrophe, the $50 million building planned for UVU will happen.

SIEBACH: I would support anything that continues to fund it. We know this school needs more building and office space, esp. when u consider how far behind it is in accommodating those who want to come here.

LAYTON: Any decision-maker is supposed to learn that if you put $2.5 million into something, it shouldn't be a factor in deciding whether or not the $50 million should be spent on the building. We spent $13 million on a lawsuit over the highway project, but that saved us $200 million. Things happen behind the scenes and I would actively shepherd them along.

6) Did you agree with Gov. Herbert's veto of HB363 (reproductive education bill), why or why not?

SIEBACH: No. Marriage improves families. This is not an issue of biology vs. sex ed. Biology can teach all about organs. This bill prevents graphic videos or images that happen in other states. Teaching about contraceptives or homosexuality is my right as parent, which is where true teaching should be done.

LAYTON: I support Gov's veto of bill for two reasons, neither to do with sex. Issues like that belong at local level. I don't need 104 legislators to be telling the districts what they can or can't do. What happens in classroom depends greatly on teacher. The unintended consequence was it would have killed concurrant enrollment. They couldn't get credit at colleges but they are not abstinance-only institutions. When we go about trying to legislate these particular things, we have to be so careful. There are groups who'd like to be explicit. I don't think 16-yr-olds should even know what their preferences are, but I support the veto.

DAW: I'm trying to draw the line. I don't support the veto, I supported the bill. They gave us the data and unsurprisingly enough, the regions where STDs are lowest were school districts that teach abstinence-only. One constituent had a compromise where you could teach contraception in the confines of family planning within a committed marriage. I'd be for that.

SIEBACH: It's not a biology question. It doesn't factor in with concurrent enrollment.

LAYTON: I was talking to Terry Olsen, BYU PhD, he said neither side has very much to crow about on this bill becuz they approach it from behavioral standpoint. When u teach relational issues, "if u were born tomorrow, what would u want your circumstances to be" that's more effective way to internalize principles.

7) What can you do as legislator to stimulate economy in Utah?

LAYTON: Govt can't do a whole lot to create jobs. They can do shovel-ready jobs, but the best thing they can do is get out of the way, lower regulations, etc. There's risk in trying to build a business. That's different between me and my opponents. They're programmers. I've been earning a living for 30 years w/o a paycheck.

DAW: Let me offer 3 things. We can do more to stifle economic prosperity. 1) Educated workforce. We want good jobs. We've attracted Adobe here, we've had homegrown business like Merritt Medical. 2) Limited tax environment for businesses. Taxes are necessary, but we want to make sure it's limited as possible. We have 5% flat business tax. 3) It costs much less to incorporate here than other states.

SIEBACH: Govt's role is to protect rights, not regulate. I've taken those financial risks. We need to continue to foster business, large and small. I grew up partly in Delaware, and so many corporations go there becuz of their friendly regulations.

8) Explain stance on illegal immigration and your vote on HB116.

DAW: Upfront, any new illegal immigration legislation we pass is to be the mop for the mess that the fed level left us. I supported HB116, I also supported enforcement provisions. There's identity theft, there's drug trafficking. I would love to beef up enforcement. There's a class of people here who are working. Let's have punishment fit the crime. Deporting someone away from their family to a country they may have never called home in their life doesn't fit.

SIEBACH: I support many provisions in HB116. I disgree with the amnesty part. If they commit the crime, they should go home. if we have good immigration, we want people to come here. Those people have a vested interest in this country. We have to take measures even if fed govt won't. Let's make provisions so they have to go home.

LAYTON: I'm not sure about the Constitutionality of HB116, but I support states rights to manage bodies within the boundaries. It seems like it allows illegal immigration to step to the front of the line. it's completely unfair to them to give a stamp of approval. "What do you think about immigration? What do you feel?" What i think and feel are two different things. I think the law should be followed, but I feel compassion for those people.

9) Would you ever see an instance where you'd raise taxes to balance the budget.

SIEBACH: This question is contradictory. Taxes are your accounts receivable. To balance the budget, you make do with what you have. What if we could save tax money, so that we could get to where we don't have to take any more federal money.

LAYTON: Balancing the budget can work either way. Balancing is balancing. That's the danger of Balanced Budget Amendment; there could be federally mandated tax increase. Sen. Bennett was against it. We need to live within our means. I feel fortunate to have had good financial advice.

DAW: In 8 years in SLC, I have yet to see reason to increase taxes, in fact we've lowered them several times. We put $11 million back in the rainy-day fund. We can't put off public school for a year. By putting $ back in, it keeps us from being in situation where we're out of funds. I agree, I think Balanced Budget Amendment is a gimmick.

Audience Q&A

Michael Wilson - Fed govt has ignored states rights. What can state legislature do to bring back states rights?

DAW: We can do interstate compacts. Medicaid budget has doubled. If that keeps increasing, then education has to be cut. The other way is to seek redress in calling for a convention. If we're serious about pushing back, and u have a better idea than the FF, I'll jump all over it.

SIEBACH: I agree with taking back our lands.

LAYTON: States do not have rights, people have rights. But the balance of power is way out of whack. I'm not an extremist. I'm a down-the-middle conservative. States need to assert their rights.

DAW: If we don't use interstate compacts, we take another tool off the table.

(Old Man) - Govt derives all power from the people. The fed govt is saying the states do not have the right to control their own borders. Does that mean I cannot defend myself?

LAYTON: That's why 2nd amendment is important. It creates balance of power. We delegate that responsibility to law enforcement. We saw with Katrina, lawlessless can take over in the blink of an eye. State sovereignty has been overlooked.

DAW: I agree with u on principle. We have life, libery and the pursuit of happiness. Right after that, it says govt are formed to protect those rights "with the consent of the governed." I supported bill that said if you're in your own home, you're presumed not guilty.

SIEBACH: I essentially resonate what they said. I believe in Bill of Rights. You should be able to defend your family. You should be able to protect someone else too.

Kevin Aston, Pres of Tech Educators of Utah - What's your opinion of teachers associations?

SIEBACH: Associations are fine. Each person should research and look at things. I am an educator, I love teaching my physics class.

LAYTON: I think assocations are at the root of the 1st Amendment. We have the right to pool our efforts, gather and speak our mind. Lobbyists are there to educate legislators. i don't have any ill will about associations. When it crosses over to extortion and force, and I've had experience with that in other cities. I'm proud to work in right-to-work state.

DAW: Associations have a place. I used to be in an Engineers association. When a union tries to protect someone's job, I have a problem w/ that.

Doug Tollis - Career politicians?

DAW: At the end of 8 years, if you look at it in DC years, it's quite young. It's part-time legislature. We don't make very much. There tends to be natural turnover. If someone's willing to advocate for their constituents, good.

SIEBACH: The Founders didn't put term limits on anything. I have no plan to be a full-time politician. If this person is representing me, let them represent me.

LAYTON: I don't aspire to be a career politician; I have other careers. I want to make a contribution. I think the FF inteneded the people would go and serve and then go back home. The idea of new passion and new blood in government is good for government.

George Patlin - My children are about to enter K-12. Education is road to prosperity. Utah is 46th in nation on what we spend per child per year. Brad, you've been outspoken on we're spending too much on education. << DAW: Not true!>>

LAYTON: I would love to see education funded at a much higher level, but Utah spends a larger percentage of its budget on education than most. Utah teachers do a great job stretching dollars. i went to public education. The building was awful, but the teachers are great. I don't think money's the only answer.

DAW: I'm not sure where that's coming from. Education has always been at the front of the line. This last year when we had extra money, it went to education. It's an ongoing and sacred education. What's pushing it out is we have a Medicaid budget that's pushing it out.

SIEBACH: Going off of that, we need to get off the federal dime and their mandates. We want our children to be the best that they can. Let's do more with less. maybe we have too much bureaucracy involved. We need to make sure we're working locally. School districts, school boards, etc.

Joey Smith - Would you fight for ensuring that proper time was given to each bill before it was voted on? Examples HB116 and HB477.

DAW: It's unusual for a bill of that magnitude to have the last-minute fine-tuning, but I was happy to repeal GRAMA based on the way it was pushed through.

SIEBACH: Our first idea is rarely the best. We need time to deliberate, to see if there's a better way of doing what we're doing.

LAYTON: I was under the impression Brad voted for HB477. <> I'm for transparency on all levels. I wouldn't support a measure to limit it. There are times with simple bills can go through quick, but not something of this magnitude.

JoDee Sumberg - We have the lowest student-to-administrator funding. All of our HS have same opportunity for UCAS. It's funded at state average. Alpine is funded at lowest average. How would you rectify the amount charter schools get? (I take it she is against charter schools.)

LAYTON: I need to study the issue.

DAW: I think they're great. It's 25% of replacement fund. I want to support charter schools. We have to move to equalized property tax. You'll have winners and losers.

SIEBACH: I love competition. I love charter schools.

Ann Tindell - All three of you tended for personal responsibility over safety. What if the motorcyclist gets splattered across the highway and wants someone else to pay the bill?

SIEBACH: If they're splattered across the road, there's not much to worry about. But if you ride a motorcycle, you have to have insurance. Trying to do a massive fix just kills liberty.

LAYTON: Assuming he's in the hospital, it's negligence on the individual's part. For me it's in the realm of defining it as negligence.

DAW: Jacob, auto insurance is liability, not catastrophic insurance, and trust me, we don't want a mandate. But the hospital will go after his insurance, maybe put a lien on his house, etc.

SIEBACH: I'm in no way in favor of mandate.

Jason ? - I have a friend who works for Utah and is covered by PEHP. The Parity Act, fed law, requires mental health to be treated like physical health, but PEHP is exempt from the law and denied him treatment, said he had to go to IHC. Why is it the state has the right to go thru loopholes while the rest of the private insurance can't?

LAYTON: Legislators should not be able to exempt themselves from laws they pass. Mental health is serious issue. The more brain research we do, the more we find physiological basis for crime and different behaviors.

DAW: Most insurance companies have ability to deny coverage of certain types of illnesses. I'd need to know more, it may or may not be covered. Come talk to me.

SIEBACH: I'd need further research on that, I'm not aware why things aren't covered. When you look at insurance as private industry, they can deny coverage for whatever.

-- One-minute closing comment

SIEBACH: I love the Constitution. I love my state, I love my family. I got back to indivdual rights, state sovereignty. God gave us our rightsd and we should stick to the ideals of the Founders. I'd love to be an inventor; let govt get out of the way.

LAYTON: In general, I'd say my desire is to provide good, solid, reasonable conservative representation to you. I would like to bring effectiveness and energy to the job, maybe some inter-party pushback. I'd like to repeal a bunch of laws. We need fewer laws, not more.

DAW: One of the bills I passed was a repealer that reduced the amount of laws we have on the books. My goal is to be the most successful legislator in the state. I've responded to everyone who's emailed me. Some of the best ideas for bills I've had have come from people in this room.