GOP Bloomberg debate

"Hi, I'm Charlie Rose--"

"Hi, I'm Katy Perry..."

That didn't just happen to me, did it? We got a weirdly crammed-in Proactiv commercial with Katy Perry before cutting back to the debate, and who gets the first question? Flavor of the week Herman Cain, that's who. It's on the economy.

CAIN - My 9-9-9 plan is bold.

PERRY - I think my plan's pretty bold for the energy industry. I'll lay out my plan in 3 days. It's time for energy independence. I have experience in reaching across the aisle.

ROMNEY - We need a leader. Obama had no leadership experience.

PERRY - "Youv'e had two months; what's your plan?" We need to pull back those regulations that are strangling the economy, doesn't matter if it's ObamaCare or Dodd-Frank, I'll lay out my plan in 3 days, not telling it all to you now. Mitt's had 6 years to lay out his 59-point plan; I've only been running for prez for 8 weeks.

BACHMANN - "Banks got bailed out and they paid themselves huge bonuses. Do u think it's right no Wall Street person has gone to jail for ruining the economy?" It was the federal govt's fault, it was Frank and Dodd that pushed govt-directed housing goals. Banks had to meet those lending rules. It began with Freddie and Fannie. Dodd-Frank institutionalized the problems with the bank.

GINGRICH - "Do the #OWS protesters have no grievance?" No, they're two groups protesting. One is left-wing agitators, the others are decent, concerned Americans. The former are proud to trash the place, the latter pick up after themselves. If you want to put people in jail, start with Dodd and Frank. Look at the Countrywide deal, the lobbyists they're close to. Everyone in the media who wants to go after Wall St. ought to start with the politicians. (applause) Bernanke has spent billions bailing out one group and not helping another group. It's corrupt and wrong.

PAUL - "Where do you come down on the Fed?" (laughter) $5 billion went to bail out foreign banks. We need to audit Fed. To understand the recession, you have to understand the Fed. The cause is the booms, bubbles, easy credit. They burst.

SANTORUM - "Can manufacturing jobs return?" Yes. I don't know any businessmen in PA who wanted to lose those jobs. [um, how many CEO's did he talk to?] The cool thing about my plan as opposed to Herman's is mine would pass.

HUNTSMAN - "Shouldn't the focus now be on the innovative jobs of tomorrow." I would disagree with Rick that PA is gas capital of country. DC is gas capital of country. When we lose out on innovation, entrepreneurship, we lose jobs to Chinese and Indians. We need a marketplace where we can transform innovation into products. Taxes, regulations holding us back.

GINGRICH - "Medicare is going broke; considering 1/2 of all Medicare spending is done in last 2 years of life, do u consider this wasteful spending?" Glad you asked. Do I want some DC bureaucrat to have say in med treatment? No. Palin was right about death panels. I'm opposed to class intervention for these things.

BACHMANN - "How can we be sure our Medicare spending isn't wasteful?" We know Medicare's going broke. We asked Obama 3 times what his plan was to save Medicare. 3rd time he said ObamaCare. [I'm sure that's exactly what he said.] 15 political appointees will make all the medical decisions under ObamaCare. [My bullcrap meter just went haywire.]

HUNTSMAN - "Who do you seek for economic advise, what type of people?" My father. Started with nothing, built up a great company. Our flat tax in Utah took it to #1 in job creation. Who on Earth from private sector would want to give up privacy to get into govt? We have a professional governing class on one end and private-sector on the other. Let's go back to a more open system where private-sector people can serve for a time and then go back to private life. "What do you think of Cain's 9-9-9 plan?" I thought it was the price of a pizza. (Laughter.) We need a bipartisan approach to tax reform. Simpson-Bowles had a lot of good in it.

CAIN - 9-9-9 will pass and it is well studied. Throw out the current tax code. This is why we developed 9-9-9. It will pass. "Who do you turn to for economic advise?" The American people. Also, Rich Lowrie. He's created wealth most of his career.

ROMNEY - "European debt has worsened. Global financial system is on the brink. What would you do different from Bush, Paulsen, Bernanke did in 2008?" That's a hypothetical. "No it's not. It's a very real threat." It's still hypothetical. But I can tell you I won't need to call Tim Geitner and say How does the economy work? If you think the entire world's finances are going to collapse, you take immediate action. I'm not interested in bailing out individual institutions. "Would you be open to the idea of another Wall St bailout?" No one wants that. "But would you do it again, you supported it in 2008." We were on the precipice. Was it perfect? No. Should they have used the funds to bail out GM & Chrysler? No. 'Do you agree with Gingrich about Bernanke?" I'd choose someone else. "Who?" I haven't chosen a replacement, I haven't chosen a VP, I might not be the nominee, slow down. I wish we could find Milton Friedman again, but I have respect for [lists three names]. I believe in drawing from the best minds in the country. I know how to protect American jobs. "So there's no institution too big to fail?" No, but you need to make sure we don't lose our country. Bailouts of individual institutions? No one wants that.

CAIN - "Did you support bailout?" I agree with Romney; the way it was implemented was wrong.

GINGRICH - Can I say something before we move on? Paulsen and Geitner didn't have a clue. Not that they're not smart; they just didn't know what was going to happen next. We're no better prepared now than we were then.

PAUL - Remember we need to get rid of the debt. It is the main burden on the economy.

Commercial break. The cut-away music sounds like something out of The Dark Knight.

When they come back, we get the last word of a Reagan quote.

PERRY - Different times. He was willing to raise taxes in exchange for spending reductions, but the reductions never came. We need a Balanced-Budget amendment. (quick light applause).

ROMNEY - "Don't we need compromise, like Reagan suggested?" The % of fed spending on economy keeps increasing. We need to get our economy growing. Raising taxes and cutting spending might work, but we really need to get the economy going. "Do you want to cut defense, or--" It's a terrible idea to cut defense, but to raise taxes is wrong. I want to see that supercommittee take responsibility to reform entitlements. "W/o any increase in revenue?"

GINGRICH - I want to say something here. The prez showed no leadership so they passed a stupid bill, where the choice is for a supercommittee to say around Thanksgiving, do you want to shoot yourself in the head or cut off your leg? It's stupid.

BACHMANN - Let's not give Obama another $2.4 trillion blank check to spend. {*sigh*. If it's for $2.4 trillion, it's not blank.] The travesty is that they spend $1.5 trillion mroe than that. Every year we spend 40% more of what we take in.

Here's a clip of Herman Cain giving his 9-9-9 plan.

CAIN - "The analysis shows your plan would've brought in less revenue and would still add a 9% natl tax on food and medicine." The analysis is wrong. 9-9-9 expands the base. [i.e. raises taxes on the middle-class and poor.] Independent firms scored it. "Under your plan, all Americans will pay more for milk, bread and beer." [someone jokes 'and pizza!'] The people will have the flexibility to choose how they spend more of their money.

BACHMANN - 9-9-9 is not a jobs plan, it's a tax plan. It gives Congress a pipeline of natl sales tax. This'd open the doot for VAT. [then she makes a joke about turning 9-9-9 upside down and the devil's in the details.]

Here's a clip of Romney calling China a currency manipulator.

HUNTSMAN - "If China's keeping its currency low, that means everything we buy from them is artifically cheap." I don't subscribe to the Donald Trump or Mitt Romney school of international trade. Trade wars disadvantages our small businesses and agricultures. We have no choice; we have to find common ground.

ROMNEY - You think China doesn't want a trade war? They're artificially keeping their prices low which is hurting jobs here. They're a currency manipulator. If you're not willing to stand up to China you'll get run over by them.

PERRY - We're missing this so much. We need to focus on getting America working again. We're sitting on treasure trove of energy. Pull regulations back. The manufacturing will come back. Free up this country's entrepreneurs.

Question from Honeywell CEO. "What would be on your American competitiveness agenda? Please focus on specifics."

SANTORUM - I already put forth a plan. I don't want to go to war with China; I want to beat China. How many people here want a national sales tax; raise your hand. [very few] There you go, Herman.

Charlie Rose then mentions if you keep mentioning 9-9-9 I have to go back to Herman Cain for every other question.

CAIN - Thank you.

SANTORUM - Wait, I've only had one question. I have experience-- "Time!" and I get it done-- "Time!"

CAIN - They want to pass what they think they can pass. 9-9-9 is a bold solution.

ROMNEY - We have to appeal ObamaCare. We have to return it to the states. We all agree with repeal and replace. And I'm proud I actually have a plan of something to replace it with.

HUNTSMAN - It's disingenuous. You can't just waive it away. ObamaCare is here.

Commercial break. Cut-away music is like something out of Braveheart, when the men are cleaning their swords right before they go to battle.

We're back. Matt Dowd and Trenchcoat Lady give their halftime analysis. Dowd's amused so much attention has been applied to Cain. Also found Perry weak for saying "I'll give you my plan in three days." Interested by the tension between Romney and Huntsman on China.

Another commercial break. And we're back with the Dark Knight-esque music.

Charlie Rose lets us know the candidates can now question each other. Going alphabetically.

BACHMANN to PERRY - "Reagan produced an economic miracle in the 1980's, but you were campaigning for Al Gore. Debt increased 50% in Texas. How can we trust you not to go down the Obama way?" I grew up a Democrat. I came to the GOP sooner in age than Reagan did. Texas has the 6th lowest debt per-capita when I started. Now it's 2nd.

CAIN to ROMNEY - "My 9-9-9 plan is transparent, fair and neutral. Can you name your 59-point plan and is it transparent, fair and neutral." Simple answers are nice but sometimes they're inadequate. Part of my plan deals with jobs, part with trade, we stop the cheating that goes on. It deals with rule of law. We have to have institutions that create human capital. We need great schools. We need govt that doesn't spend more than it takes in. 'So it's not simple." To get this economy going it'll take a lot.

GINGRICH to ROMNEY - "There's a lot in your plan I like, but it surprises me in your plan you have a capital-gains tax for only those lower than $200,000 a year." We give a tax break to middle America becuz they're the ones hurt most by this economy. I want to focus on the middle.

HUNTSMAN to ROMNEY - "I promise this won't be about religion." (uncomfortable titters) "Sorry about that, Rick. As former CEO of Bain Capital, a company that breaks down businesses and sells them off, and as governor of Mass. which was #47 in job creation when Utah was #1, how can you win the job-creation debate given your background?" Well, my background is much different than you describe. Bain Capital helped start businesses. We started Staples, the Sports Authority, we started a steel mill in Indiana. We net-created 10's of thousands of jobs.

PAUL to CAIN - "Since Fed is engine of interest rates and our ecomony, in the past youv'e been critical of those who would want to see them audited. You said no need for audit. Now we've found out how special businesses and companies and foreign countries get picked, do you still feel this way?" You've misquoted me. Be careful of what you get off the internet. When I was on Fed board in 1990's, we didn't do anything this Fed board is doing. I do not object to the Fed being audited. If someone wants to do that, go ahead. It doesn't bother me; it's not my top priority. My top priority is 9-9-9.

PERRY to ROMNEY - "Your advisor said ObamaCare is RomneyCare. How do you respond?" The great thing about running for prez is you can boast about your record. In Mass. we saw we had 8% uninsured so we dealt with them. Obama's not just dealing with the uninsured, he deals with everyone and he's raising taxes. And cutting Medicare. Obama cut Medicare. Mass. has lowest state of kids uninsured, Texas is highest uninsured. It was going down under Bush, it went up under you. As prez, I will repeal ObamaCare.

Rose tries to go to Santorum, but he points out ROmney's next. R before S. Many laughs at Rose's expense. Romney: "You'd think a PBS employee would know that."

ROMNEY to BACHMANN - "You've laid out bold ideas for scaling back govt, but expand on your ideas on helping Americans get back to work. Beyond tax policies, how are you going to help young people get back to work?" Go to my website. It's not just the tax-code. It's dealing with the regulations. I started my own business; I get job creation too.

[I think Romney pitched a softball to her to help her out. If she can rise back up in the polls, it only helps Romney.]

SANTORUM to CAIN - "I opposed the TARP program, it violated the spirit of our Constitution. The people on this panel who supported TARP are trying to saying they're the anti-DC crowd. My question is since Cain is naively giving DC a tool to Congress with natl sales tax, how do we know you won't give DC more tools?" There are three deterrants. The American people will hold Congress's feet to the fire, and as prez, I won't sign anything that raises taxes above 9-9-9.

Commercial break.

PERRY - "Health care." People are sitting around the kitchen table [about the fifth reference tonight to people sitting around the kitchen table] trying to figure out how to pay for insurance. The real issue for us is giving flexibility to Medicaid. Govnrs Jindal in LA [endorsed Perry] and Martinex in NM understand this too. "Texas has had 16 waivers for Medicaid." States shouldn't have to go to DC and ask Mother May I every time they have an idea.

CAIN - "One of the most important appointments you'd make would be Fed chairman. Who have you liked over the past 40 years?" Alan Greenspan. The way he oversaw the Fed, the way he coordinated with banks, I thought it worked fine in the 1990's. I have two names I will not give I'd considered to appoint as new Fed chairman if elected. I've got to keep them confidential.

PAUL - Spoken like an insider. Greenspan was a disaster. (applause). I'd say Paul Volcker at least knew how to end inflation. Nobody satisfies me. Greenspan ushered in the biggest bubble, but Bernanke inflated worse than Greenspan.

Audience question: "Business like mine have difficulty attaining credit. How to help?"

ROMNEY - Dodd and Frank were the wrong guys at the wrong time to usher in new legislation to implement financial regulations. Small businesses can't possibly deal with it. Small banks are starving becuz inspectors are making their jobs impossible.

BACHMANN - Dodd-Frank is the Jobs & Housing Destruction Act. I spoke with a banker who said he'd lose $20 million this year becuz of all the compliance. That's why we see this new $5 debit card fee. We need to end payoffs to political donors.

CAIN - I agree, repeal Dodd-Frank. Get rid of the capital gains tax. We know which plan gets rid of the capital gains tax.

PAUL - Yes, get rid of Dodd-Frank. Sarbanes-Oxley needs to be repealed too. [Woo-hoo!] Republicans did that; we hurt ourselves. Not all problems started in the last 3 years.

PERRY - "Your own state auditor had problems." We feel like there's been extraordinary oversight in Texas. That's why we went up in jobs net while US went down.

Video clip of G.W. Bush saying the more that own homes, the better off we'll be.

GINGRICH - There's a stream of American thought that wishes the US would wither and weaken so the govt could take over. It started with Carter and the malaise speech. I'm shocked the House reps haven't repealed Dodd-Frank and Sarbanes-Oxley.

CAIN - The Wall St. protestors should be targetting the government, not Wall Street.

ROMNEY - "If the Bush tax cuts are not extended, that means a tax increase for everyone." No one wants to see tax increases. Obama's jobs plan keep yielding no results. You need to not have temporary tax cuts. That creates uncertainty. "You'd be okay with the temporary payroll tax cut expiring...?" I don't like little temporary band-aid tax cuts.

PERRY - "Over the last 30 years, the wealthiest 1% income has grown by over 300%, but we have more in poverty now than ever. is that fair; what would you do to change that?" The reason we have so many in pvoerty is because this prez is a job-killer. That's what's wrong with US today. He's overtaxed, overregulated. [how many taxes has Obama raised since he's been in office?] They're laying off people.

SANTORUM - Part of the poverty problem is the breakdown of the American family. We need to talk about economics in the home. It's our foundation as a country. You can't have a wealthy society w/o family. We need to encourage marriage.
[someone in the audience yells something angry at Santorum]

Charlie Rose asks for closing statements.

BACHMANN - We don't need Big Govt to step in if we as a society take care of each other.

CAIN - I was po' before I was poor. My dad worked three jobs. Our leaders need to surround themselves with the right people to make the right decisions. We need a bold plan.

GINGRICH - I grew up as an Army brat. Voters aren't going to hire us becuz we say "We sympathize with you. They hire us becuz we say 'This is how we'll solve it.' Every person at tis table is more likely to solve it than Obama. (mild applause)

PAUL - We have to understand what libery is all about. Free market and sound money is key to success. I want to restore American greatness.

SANTORUM - When manufacturing leaves, middle America leaves. Upward mobility is greater in Europe than America today. I will bring back manufacturing jobs.

HUNTSMAN - I've participated in growing a company that creates jobs, I presided over a state with 2.4% unemployment. We're seeing a rise of spousal abuse, suicides, etc. you see the impact of the dignity of having a job.

PERRY - I've got CEO experience and wokring with private sector in creating jobs. That's what people are begging for.

ROMNEY - People are out of work, incomes going down. Being American means confidence in the future. We need a leader who believes in America. I'm absolutely devoted to making America strong.

Charlie Rose thanks us for watching.

Some of my impressions:

- What yahoos are running the Bloomberg channel? Commercials just suddenly start in the middle of the show, then it cuts back too late. I guess they're still young.

- Ultimately this debate won't matter much, but I hope it influences the way future debates go. Having the candidates question each other was more interesting than the moderators doing it.

How would I rank them?

8. MICHELLE BACHMANN - She's fading into the background and seems most likely to say something wildly inaccurate. She really finds NO fault with bankers or Wall Street in our current economic situation? The softball Romney pitched to her, she bunted with platitudes.

7. RICK SANTORUM - He serves as a nice attack dog in the debate, which might hurt those he attacks but never himself. He helped hurt Perry in a previous debate, and he landed the strongest blow against Cain in this debate, but does that mean more votes for himself? No. You don't want to be the only candidate that illicits angry shouting from the audience.

6. RICK PERRY - The moderators and fellow candidates treated him like a second-tier candidate, and he did nothing to dispel that. This is his, what, fourth debate? And he still doesn't have a plan? Has he not noticed what his trajectory is? He's still too general and too simplistic on the economy. Income disparity over the past 30 years is not solely because of Obama.

5. JON HUNTSMAN - Most likely to crack a joke, and half of them fell flat. I'd like to hear Huntsman and Romney debate China more. It's still too crowded a field for him to emerge, but he's more likely to be one of the first to be asked to leave.

4. RON PAUL - The guy wins straw polls no matter what he says in debates. But his slam on Greenspan right after Cain praised him was quite effective. And it would sure make my life easier if Sarbanes-Oxley was repealed.

3. NEWT GINGRICH - For a guy who started these debates as the cranky one, he now seems to be going on a charm offensive. I think it's working. If Cain can suddenly go from "why is he here?" to #1 Not-Romney candidate in less than a month, Newt could pull something off. I just don't see him overcoming his bio.

2. HERMAN CAIN - He hammered his 9-9-9 plan early and often. Doesn't seem to matter that it'll raise taxes on the poor while lowering taxes on the rich. It's simple and easy to understand, and Cain's message is catching fire. He was treated like the co-front-runner and responded well to the heat. I think he may be damaged over time for praising Greenspan as the best Fed head in the past 40 years, and the fact that one of the 9's in his 9-9-9 is a national sales tax.

1. MITT ROMNEY - Again, no one touched him, though Huntsman seemed to be the only one willing to try. The closest anyone came was when one of the questioners tried to pinpoint Romney on Europe's economy possibly collapsing, and he didn't want to answer a "hypothetical." I would say he has New Hampshite sewn up.