All of it's me typing so I missed some stuff. Apologies for typos or inaccuracies.
9:06 - Doug Wright thanks the two of them for clearing out their schedules. Opening statements.
OH - Our country is at a crossroads. I'm going around the country raising hundreds of millions of dollars to help GOP senators get elected. I'm running not only to help Mitt, but to be chairman of the Senate Finance Committee. The SFC addresses Soc Security, Medicare, Medicaid, tax reform. Seniors won't have a good future unless we get things under control. That's why I'm running. This is the greatest country in the world.
DL - It's time for new leaders in DC. Hatch and his leaders have run up the greatest debt in the history of mankind. They've raised the debt ceiling, they've wasted billions in earmarks for their own buddies. I'm running becuz you could be chairman not despite of it. We have to have leaders who will do more than just "talk" about reforming. I focussed on the two biggest financial problems in Utah in the senate. We reformed pensions, we reformed Medicaid. We need people in DC who will do what they said they're going to do, not just talk a good game when it's time for the next election.
9:12 - Buffering!
9:14 - OH - ACU gives me a 90% voting record for my entire time in senate. I have fought my whole senate service for a Balanced budget Amendment. To be honest, Dan, I've been in the trenches fighting; we just need enough Republicans in the senate to get things done. We've never had that majority. If Mitt Romney is president, there's no end to the good we can do. That's why he endorsed me.
DL - That is simply not true. You had the majority in 2003 and you passed Medicare Part D, raising our debt by trillions.
QUESTION - You've been in office 36 years, why should we believe it will change?
OH - First we need Mitt Romney. Second, we need me in the SFC. Dan doesn't understand we've always had 3-4 liberal Republicans to prevent us from doing what we want to get done. Even Democrats appreciate my leadership in the SFC. Dan's done a good job in the Utah senate. Give me 75% GOP senators and you wouldn't believe what I can get done. That doesn't mean as a freshman senator he can make a difference.
DL - Did those liberal Republicans force you to vote for medicare part D? Those are powerful liberals. Those are your votes I'm talking about. I'm not talking about the main liberals. I'm talking about YOUR vote.
OH - You voted for the expansion of S-CHIP, which I voted against. Look, I'm shameless when it comes to supporting Utah companies. It's a shame Razor Technologies didn't work out.
QUESTION - To both candidates, the environment in DC is toxic. What will you do to reverse this?
DL - That is a huge frustration of mine. It's GOP and Dems that got us into this mess. Becuz Razor was a Utah company, OH would fight for them. Had Solyndra been a Utah company, would you have fought for them too? It is the hypocrisy of people who point to the other side when their own votes belie that fact. We got Medicaid reform passed in Utah becuz it's a reality issue not partisan issue.
OH - Dan left $4 billion unfunded, but I'll compliment him on that. Some of us have fought our hearts out for what it is right. i will always fight. I won't back down in fighting for UT companies. I wouldn't have fought for Solyndra, that was a boondoggle. But Razor was a $30 million grant that I had nothing to to do with. I fought for Utah, I fought for getting spending under control.
DL - You can't wave around the BBA in one hand and in the other, pass bill after bill that makes it impossible to balance the budget. It'll take us years to clean up the pensions, but the legislation gets us on the right path. I've been looking leadership on these issues and I have not seen it.
QUESTION - Again, what will you do personally to stop the poisonous partisanship in DC?
DL - I will never go on TV and point fingers at the other side when my own record demonstrates otherwise. I think there are patriots on both sides of the aisle who can do math and want to do the right thing.
OH - i have a reputation for bringing people together. I dont bring them together to blow things out the door; I bring them together to get things under control. They dont infringe on my conservative values.
QUESTION - DOMA came under question in Boston, ruled it unconstitutional.
OH - DOMA is a bill i worked very hard to get through. I dont believe in discriminating against anybody, but I do draw the line at the definition of marriage. We wanted the states to decide, and 30 states have it written into the Constitution that marriage is between a man and a woman. Mass. ignored the law and created new law and that has to be tested in the court.
DL - I am 100% agreement on that issue. The traditional family is the best department of education and welfare in this country. It's always been a state issue.
OH - One more thing. I put together the brief on that in the West. It points out just how radical that Mass. judge was.
QUESTION - ObamaCare, we're waiting for Supreme Court decision on this. Rather than tell us you're just repealing, what is your alternative? Remember, some of us are already relying on parts of the act (pre-existing conditions). Most presidents advocate for some form of natl health care.
DL - ObamaCare is so fundamentally flawed it has to be repealed. It was Hatch and others who laid out COnsittuitonal arguemnets for it int he 1990. It was OH and Ted Kennedy who expanded childrens health care. GOP has pushed govt into health care the past 30 years and very few have done more to do that than Sen. hatch. Get govt out of the way on health care.
OH - Ia gree with some of his comments. medicare part-D has helped millionsof Americans and it's come in 40% under projections. Paul Ryan's medical plan is based on medicare Part -D. With S-CHIP, there's an S in front of it. It was for our state; it wasnt supposed to be national. Obama expanded it. I was against it. Dan voted for thr expansion. Some of the insurnace coimpanies are taking some of the things we did.
DL - That is simply not true. The vote I took removed a 5-year waiting list for legal immigrants. It was not an expansion. When you say it was a fed govt program with block grants, you are blackmailing the states with their own money.
QUESTION - have you considered what the aftermatch will be on the Supreme Court decision will be?
OH - i was one of the first to make the Constitutional argument against individual mandate.
DL - I'm glad you made the case against it, but you made the case for it int he 1990's. Individual responsibility need to reenter the equation.
OH - Can I add just one other thing? It was a Heritage Foundation bill.
DL - You're playing fast and loose becuz it was a tactic. You had your name on it, and they used it to pass ObamaCare.
QUESTION - Doesn't not having tax increase on table kill discussion of balancing the budget?
DL - At Bain when we had a failing company we did three things. 1. You fire the management team that got you in this mess. 2. You look at revenue. 3. You look at cost. I'm in favor of a fairer tax. I'm for increasking GE's taxes since they got their own loophole, but we need to broaden the base. Hatch and others have used tax code to grant subsidies, like sugar.
OH - I'm against raising taxes. Every time we've done it under the guise they'd give us deficit reduction, and we never got the promised spending deductions. Raising taxes isn't a question of revenue. The real problem is that Democrats and liberal Republicans will spend it. Everything Dan is talking about it, i can do it on my committee. This is why Mitt's endorsed me. If I am going to get criticized for everything wrong in govt, I should get credit everything right in govt.
DL - It's fiscal child abuse as you keep deferring debts and deficits to future generations.
OH - Everyone who knows me knows I fight for Utah, I fight for controlled spending.
DL - Mike Crapo will be chair if you're not there, and he voted against TARP, against the bailouts, his record is better than yours.
OH - Well, I've got to answer that. If you think you're better off having a senator from Idaho, you need to rethink it.
QUESTION - There's been no meaningful action from govt on immigration.
OH - I get criticism for DREAM Act but we were trying to follow the UT legislature. Anyone who wants to criticize me on immigration needs to realize I've done more on immigration than anyone in Utah.
DL - There are 3 things we need to do. 1. Secure the border. 2. open up legal immigration. After 9/11 we shut down the process. I want people coming through the front door with their sleeves rolled up. 3. Have employers use E-Verify in employment. With those things, we can start to clean up a lot of these issues.
OH - No use kidding we're a nation of immigrants, but immigrants who follow the law. he's right; we need to secure the border. We can no longer grant amnesty. I fought against the 1986 bill becuz they granted amnesty.
QUESTION - "Hill Air Force Base."
DL - It is offensive to the men & women at HAFB to suggest that one man stands between them and oblivion. It is the most effecient AFB in the country. To say one man stands between them is wrong. In 1976, Frank Moss said the same thing. "If you lose me, you lose HAFB." it is the politics of fear. How can you justify blowing through the Soc Security trust fund and then say now, NOW the one person who presided over this run-up of debt can stop it.
OH - Jim Hansen said "We need Orrin." We're going to need a utah senator, but to my dying day, I will be very happy that me and Garn and Hansen had all of our experience when it came up. Clinton wanted to move Hill to California. Anyone who thinks we don't have to fight for Hill doesn't know what they're talking about.
DL - Carter tried to move it in 1977. You were a freshman senator and stopped it.
OH - Hill is in deep trouble. They keep trying to take things away from them. You don't know what you're talking about.
DL - Not true. (Hatch kept interrupting Dan here so I couldn't get most of his answer. Hatch is angry. I should mention Hatch gets in little interruptions on most of Dan's rebuttals. Dan hasn't interrupted Orrin once. Hatch would not shut up on this one.)
QUESTION - National parks, federal lands, most of Utah is sewn up.
DL - Utah's at a distinct disadvantage because our land has so many natural resoruces. It's very difficult to get a hold of our resources when the Feds own most of it. What's happened over the years is we've had a generation of politicians who've shifted power tot DC, to the executive branch, the EPA and others are writing new rules becuz Congress has outsourced its job. We need new people to get things fixed.
OH - I agree with you on all of that except needing new people. Gives example of guy who struck oil on private land. North Dakota got its lands back from Feds. We'd be a wealthy state if we could get our lands back. In early Reagan days we fought for sagebrush rebellion.
DL - You mentioned experience. How much more experience do you need? What's happened for 36 years? The results have been the same, not better.
OH - Seniority is important and it comes down to having someone with respect, someone who can get things done. In DC you'd start from scratch.
QUESTION - What would you ask your opponent?
OH - I don't have any questions for him. The problem is Dan's quoting FreedomWorks, who's the sleaziest organization I've ever come across. We intend to win.
DL - I think I missed his question. I have one. "Do you consider yourself responsible in any way for the national debt/deficit?"
OH - No, and I'm offended you keep bring it up.
DL - That answer was remarkable. We have a generation back there who won't take a shred of responsibility for a single vote. You said "We spent a lot of money back then." It is disengenuous. We have the most crushing debt in the history of mankind, and the next generation has to pay for it. We need new leaders determined to fix it. I will do that in DC. We need a new generation back there who see the day when we succeed or fail.
OH - We are in trouble, and it's not mainly Republicans who got us in trouble. Everyone knows that. We have to deal with Hill Air Force Base, with our water problems. Here's a story of a fellow who fell into a hole and said "Help me!" Businessman threw in $20 and walked away, next came a doctor and the man yelled "Help me!" The doctor threw in a prescription and walked away. Next came his friend, who jumped into hole. The man says "Why did you jump in here with me, now we're both stuck!" Friend said "I've been here before and I can get us out." Experience matters. (Story was from West Wing episode.)
So there you have it. Dan was ready to go toe-to-toe. Orrin was ready to counter by either being patronizing or angry.
Dan's main points were getting spending under control, getting new leadership in DC, dealing with illegal immigration, and getting our lands back.
Orrin's main points were he gets endorsements, Hill Air Force Base is doomed without him, he's not responsible in any way for any debt or deficit issue we have, and he'll have a lot of power as Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee. ;)
KSL.com will make the debate available to watch again in the afternoon. Hunt it down and see for yourself.
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