KSL Radio Debate Hatch-Liljenquist

I listened online. Actually I watched the webcam too at times. I see other cameras in there.

All of it's me typing so I missed some stuff. Apologies for typos or inaccuracies.

9:06 - Doug Wright thanks the two of them for clearing out their schedules. Opening statements.

OH - Our country is at a crossroads. I'm going around the country raising hundreds of millions of dollars to help GOP senators get elected. I'm running not only to help Mitt, but to be chairman of the Senate Finance Committee. The SFC addresses Soc Security, Medicare, Medicaid, tax reform. Seniors won't have a good future unless we get things under control. That's why I'm running. This is the greatest country in the world.

DL - It's time for new leaders in DC. Hatch and his leaders have run up the greatest debt in the history of mankind. They've raised the debt ceiling, they've wasted billions in earmarks for their own buddies. I'm running becuz you could be chairman not despite of it. We have to have leaders who will do more than just "talk" about reforming. I focussed on the two biggest financial problems in Utah in the senate. We reformed pensions, we reformed Medicaid. We need people in DC who will do what they said they're going to do, not just talk a good game when it's time for the next election.

9:12 - Buffering!

9:14 - OH - ACU gives me a 90% voting record for my entire time in senate. I have fought my whole senate service for a Balanced budget Amendment. To be honest, Dan, I've been in the trenches fighting; we just need enough Republicans in the senate to get things done. We've never had that majority. If Mitt Romney is president, there's no end to the good we can do. That's why he endorsed me.

DL - That is simply not true. You had the majority in 2003 and you passed Medicare Part D, raising our debt by trillions.

QUESTION - You've been in office 36 years, why should we believe it will change?

OH - First we need Mitt Romney. Second, we need me in the SFC. Dan doesn't understand we've always had 3-4 liberal Republicans to prevent us from doing what we want to get done. Even Democrats appreciate my leadership in the SFC. Dan's done a good job in the Utah senate. Give me 75% GOP senators and you wouldn't believe what I can get done. That doesn't mean as a freshman senator he can make a difference.

DL - Did those liberal Republicans force you to vote for medicare part D? Those are powerful liberals. Those are your votes I'm talking about. I'm not talking about the main liberals. I'm talking about YOUR vote.

OH - You voted for the expansion of S-CHIP, which I voted against. Look, I'm shameless when it comes to supporting Utah companies. It's a shame Razor Technologies didn't work out.

QUESTION - To both candidates, the environment in DC is toxic. What will you do to reverse this?

DL - That is a huge frustration of mine. It's GOP and Dems that got us into this mess. Becuz Razor was a Utah company, OH would fight for them. Had Solyndra been a Utah company, would you have fought for them too? It is the hypocrisy of people who point to the other side when their own votes belie that fact. We got Medicaid reform passed in Utah becuz it's a reality issue not partisan issue.

OH - Dan left $4 billion unfunded, but I'll compliment him on that. Some of us have fought our hearts out for what it is right. i will always fight. I won't back down in fighting for UT companies. I wouldn't have fought for Solyndra, that was a boondoggle. But Razor was a $30 million grant that I had nothing to to do with. I fought for Utah, I fought for getting spending under control.

DL - You can't wave around the BBA in one hand and in the other, pass bill after bill that makes it impossible to balance the budget. It'll take us years to clean up the pensions, but the legislation gets us on the right path. I've been looking leadership on these issues and I have not seen it.

QUESTION - Again, what will you do personally to stop the poisonous partisanship in DC?

DL - I will never go on TV and point fingers at the other side when my own record demonstrates otherwise. I think there are patriots on both sides of the aisle who can do math and want to do the right thing.

OH - i have a reputation for bringing people together. I dont bring them together to blow things out the door; I bring them together to get things under control. They dont infringe on my conservative values.

QUESTION - DOMA came under question in Boston, ruled it unconstitutional.

OH - DOMA is a bill i worked very hard to get through. I dont believe in discriminating against anybody, but I do draw the line at the definition of marriage. We wanted the states to decide, and 30 states have it written into the Constitution that marriage is between a man and a woman. Mass. ignored the law and created new law and that has to be tested in the court.

DL - I am 100% agreement on that issue. The traditional family is the best department of education and welfare in this country. It's always been a state issue.

OH - One more thing. I put together the brief on that in the West. It points out just how radical that Mass. judge was.

QUESTION - ObamaCare, we're waiting for Supreme Court decision on this. Rather than tell us you're just repealing, what is your alternative? Remember, some of us are already relying on parts of the act (pre-existing conditions). Most presidents advocate for some form of natl health care.

DL - ObamaCare is so fundamentally flawed it has to be repealed. It was Hatch and others who laid out COnsittuitonal arguemnets for it int he 1990. It was OH and Ted Kennedy who expanded childrens health care. GOP has pushed govt into health care the past 30 years and very few have done more to do that than Sen. hatch. Get govt out of the way on health care.

OH - Ia gree with some of his comments. medicare part-D has helped millionsof Americans and it's come in 40% under projections. Paul Ryan's medical plan is based on medicare Part -D. With S-CHIP, there's an S in front of it. It was for our state; it wasnt supposed to be national. Obama expanded it. I was against it. Dan voted for thr expansion. Some of the insurnace coimpanies are taking some of the things we did.

DL - That is simply not true. The vote I took removed a 5-year waiting list for legal immigrants. It was not an expansion. When you say it was a fed govt program with block grants, you are blackmailing the states with their own money.

QUESTION - have you considered what the aftermatch will be on the Supreme Court decision will be?

OH - i was one of the first to make the Constitutional argument against individual mandate.

DL - I'm glad you made the case against it, but you made the case for it int he 1990's. Individual responsibility need to reenter the equation.

OH - Can I add just one other thing? It was a Heritage Foundation bill.

DL - You're playing fast and loose becuz it was a tactic. You had your name on it, and they used it to pass ObamaCare.

QUESTION - Doesn't not having tax increase on table kill discussion of balancing the budget?

DL - At Bain when we had a failing company we did three things. 1. You fire the management team that got you in this mess. 2. You look at revenue. 3. You look at cost. I'm in favor of a fairer tax. I'm for increasking GE's taxes since they got their own loophole, but we need to broaden the base. Hatch and others have used tax code to grant subsidies, like sugar.

OH - I'm against raising taxes. Every time we've done it under the guise they'd give us deficit reduction, and we never got the promised spending deductions. Raising taxes isn't a question of revenue. The real problem is that Democrats and liberal Republicans will spend it. Everything Dan is talking about it, i can do it on my committee. This is why Mitt's endorsed me. If I am going to get criticized for everything wrong in govt, I should get credit everything right in govt.

DL - It's fiscal child abuse as you keep deferring debts and deficits to future generations.

OH - Everyone who knows me knows I fight for Utah, I fight for controlled spending.

DL - Mike Crapo will be chair if you're not there, and he voted against TARP, against the bailouts, his record is better than yours.

OH - Well, I've got to answer that. If you think you're better off having a senator from Idaho, you need to rethink it.

QUESTION - There's been no meaningful action from govt on immigration.

OH - I get criticism for DREAM Act but we were trying to follow the UT legislature. Anyone who wants to criticize me on immigration needs to realize I've done more on immigration than anyone in Utah.

DL - There are 3 things we need to do. 1. Secure the border. 2. open up legal immigration. After 9/11 we shut down the process. I want people coming through the front door with their sleeves rolled up. 3. Have employers use E-Verify in employment. With those things, we can start to clean up a lot of these issues.

OH - No use kidding we're a nation of immigrants, but immigrants who follow the law. he's right; we need to secure the border. We can no longer grant amnesty. I fought against the 1986 bill becuz they granted amnesty.

QUESTION - "Hill Air Force Base."

DL - It is offensive to the men & women at HAFB to suggest that one man stands between them and oblivion. It is the most effecient AFB in the country. To say one man stands between them is wrong. In 1976, Frank Moss said the same thing. "If you lose me, you lose HAFB." it is the politics of fear. How can you justify blowing through the Soc Security trust fund and then say now, NOW the one person who presided over this run-up of debt can stop it.

OH - Jim Hansen said "We need Orrin." We're going to need a utah senator, but to my dying day, I will be very happy that me and Garn and Hansen had all of our experience when it came up. Clinton wanted to move Hill to California. Anyone who thinks we don't have to fight for Hill doesn't know what they're talking about.

DL - Carter tried to move it in 1977. You were a freshman senator and stopped it.

OH - Hill is in deep trouble. They keep trying to take things away from them. You don't know what you're talking about.

DL - Not true. (Hatch kept interrupting Dan here so I couldn't get most of his answer. Hatch is angry. I should mention Hatch gets in little interruptions on most of Dan's rebuttals. Dan hasn't interrupted Orrin once. Hatch would not shut up on this one.)

QUESTION - National parks, federal lands, most of Utah is sewn up.

DL - Utah's at a distinct disadvantage because our land has so many natural resoruces. It's very difficult to get a hold of our resources when the Feds own most of it. What's happened over the years is we've had a generation of politicians who've shifted power tot DC, to the executive branch, the EPA and others are writing new rules becuz Congress has outsourced its job. We need new people to get things fixed.

OH - I agree with you on all of that except needing new people. Gives example of guy who struck oil on private land. North Dakota got its lands back from Feds. We'd be a wealthy state if we could get our lands back. In early Reagan days we fought for sagebrush rebellion.

DL - You mentioned experience. How much more experience do you need? What's happened for 36 years? The results have been the same, not better.

OH - Seniority is important and it comes down to having someone with respect, someone who can get things done. In DC you'd start from scratch.

QUESTION - What would you ask your opponent?

OH - I don't have any questions for him. The problem is Dan's quoting FreedomWorks, who's the sleaziest organization I've ever come across. We intend to win.

DL - I think I missed his question. I have one. "Do you consider yourself responsible in any way for the national debt/deficit?"

OH - No, and I'm offended you keep bring it up.

DL - That answer was remarkable. We have a generation back there who won't take a shred of responsibility for a single vote. You said "We spent a lot of money back then." It is disengenuous. We have the most crushing debt in the history of mankind, and the next generation has to pay for it. We need new leaders determined to fix it. I will do that in DC. We need a new generation back there who see the day when we succeed or fail.

OH - We are in trouble, and it's not mainly Republicans who got us in trouble. Everyone knows that. We have to deal with Hill Air Force Base, with our water problems. Here's a story of a fellow who fell into a hole and said "Help me!" Businessman threw in $20 and walked away, next came a doctor and the man yelled "Help me!" The doctor threw in a prescription and walked away. Next came his friend, who jumped into hole. The man says "Why did you jump in here with me, now we're both stuck!" Friend said "I've been here before and I can get us out." Experience matters. (Story was from West Wing episode.)

So there you have it. Dan was ready to go toe-to-toe. Orrin was ready to counter by either being patronizing or angry.

Dan's main points were getting spending under control, getting new leadership in DC, dealing with illegal immigration, and getting our lands back.

Orrin's main points were he gets endorsements, Hill Air Force Base is doomed without him, he's not responsible in any way for any debt or deficit issue we have, and he'll have a lot of power as Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee. ;)

KSL.com will make the debate available to watch again in the afternoon. Hunt it down and see for yourself.

The Liljenquist-Herrod-Hatch debate

Well, since Sen. Orrin Hatch is still actively refusing to a TV debate despite everything, here's the YouTube video of his pre-primary debate with Dan Liljenquist and Chris Herrod. I can see why he doesn't want to do it again.

Utah Senator Debate

I'm a county delegate, so I was learning about county candidates tonight, but were I a state delegate, I would have attended this debate in person. I watched this streaming on Ustream, not live but I'll use the time-stamps for when it got to what.

7:03 - There are three candidates.  Chris Herrod, Orrin Hatch and Dan Liljenquist. Hatch is in the middle.  Is it just me or does that table look like it came from Pee-Wee's Playhouse?   From here on it's just easier to type Hatch, Dan and Chris.

7:05 - The streaming quality is pretty rough. This will be a challenge.

7:06 - Dan goes first, he says we need new leadership in DC.

7:07 - Hatch says he'll be the leader of the Senate Finance Committee, the most powerful committee in DC. Mitt Romney wants me there; I'll be there for him. I'm going to do it.

7:08 - Chris calls the national debt a natl security issue. We have a short window of opportunity to change the course of this country.

7:09 - 1ST QUESTION: What is your position on space exploration?

HATCH: Jake Garn and I are behind it. Obama's ruining it. Every dollar we spend in space, we get six bucks back in renovation. I don't want the Russians to have to take our astronauts into space.

CHRIS: It's appalling we have to rely on the Russians, but our problem is the national debt. I spent 3 years in the Soviet Union so it concerns me. The Russians don't have our best interest at heart.

DAN: You can't defend our country and the world w/o a strong space program. There are areas in our budget that we've known for 40 years are a problem that we've never fixed. (see what he did there?) I'll make sure we stay in space and protect our country.

HATCH: I don't need a 45-minute rebuttal (45 seconds, Senator...)

7:13 - The streaming quality is much better now.

7:14 - 2ND QUESTION - What is the greatest issue facing our nation and what would you do to solve it?

CHRIS: National debt. Look at my state legislative record. We formed Patrick Henry Caucus, made our lands an issue, fighting against fed govt to get our lands back.

DAN: Spending, by a country mile. I worked at Bain. First you fire the people who got you here. (good line) We could have a boom of energy if we'd tap our national natural resources. Our biggest problem is the entitlement problems we've ignored for 40 years. I passed the biggest entitlement reform in this state int he past couple years.

HATCH: I don't disagree w/ my colleagues. The Senate Finance Committee got us here and it's been run by Democrats and liberals my entire time in office. We've got to kill ObamaCare. (at this point let me say the reverb from the microphones has been terrible; kudos to all 3 for putting up with it.) Mitt Romney will be president, together we'll get these problems solved.

DAN: I've been all over the state. People ask me, "Dan, what's our good senator been doing?" You've been on SFC for 18 years, and youv'e expanded spending. What's going to be different next time? (applause)

HATCH: I guess you haven't seen who's been in charge of that SFC. Ernest Grisham said Hatch will be the most conservative leader of the SFC and he's doggone right. We'll get things under control, and Romney and Hatch will do it. (really marrying himself to Romney)

7:19 - Chris asks a rules questions and then we get 3RD QUESTION - Keystone Pipeline?

DAN: Explains the pipeline that'd come from Canada. Its our fed lands that have been locked up. Canada realizes they can export, but our policy has declared war on domestic oil production. Canada will now go to China. We should do everything we can to get that pipeline to come down. We need to open up our fed lands so we can produce oil as well.

HATCH: Pres. opposed Keystone even though it could have meant 100,000 jobs. We're going to turn it around. Utah is an oil-rich state. If we're able to produce our own oil, we'll lower gas prices. I'm on top of that, we're going to change it.

CHRIS: Some of the oil is already going to go to China. Keystone's question is do they spend one pipe or three? Petrol China will pass Exxon as the world's largest oil company. I've led the issue of land fights in Utah.

7:23 - Thomas Wright says we're going to take a break to adjust the mikes... (APPLAUSE!)

7:27 - 4TH QUESTION - Please xplain Common Core and do you think it'll be detremental?

CHRIS: It was initiated by states, but even if states developed it, fed govt gets a hold of it and controls the strings. Fed has said if you do CC, you can drop out of NCLB, but that means you have to do one or the other.

DAN: Education is a family and state issue. Education was never designed to be this federal way. Get rid of DOE, return money and control to states.

HATCH: If I had my way, we'd get rid of DOE. NCLB was one of Bush's first issues, I skeptically voted for it, but if I had my way, we'd get rid of the doggone thing.

CHRIS: One thing that unites us is opposition of NCLB, and yet whenever we try to get rid of it, we can't.

HATCH: I agree.

7:32 - 5TH QUESTION - What is the role of the fed govt and what will u do to reduce the trend of it becoming overly involved?

DAN: When u move so much power to DC, they maneuver to control more of your lives. It's been this generation and our US Senate that's run up the debt, that instuted ObamaCare, not a field in our lives that fed govt doesn't believe it should touch. The US Senate was designed to defend the states, I'll return power to the states.

HATCH: Just to make it clear, I didn't vote for DOE; that's wrong. I didn't vote for Fannie & Freddie, wrong, that's FreedomWorks lies. I agree with Dan; let's return power to states and families.

CHRIS: Unfortunately many think the Constitution is an antiquated document. They're wrong. My wife grew up in Soviet Union, she understands socialism leads to serfdom.

DAN: I'm not blaming one party; it's been all of us. Congress got into a game of Hungry Hungry Hippos with our money. We have spent every marble we have; it is all of our problem. We have got to fix DC, and do that, you've got to change the Senate.

HATCH: I agree we've got to change DC and we've got to change the Senate, but there's a small cadre that's been fighting for this my whole time in DC and you shouldn't blame us for what's been done by all those Democrats and liberal Republicans! (he looks angry at that one)

CHRIS: One important job of the Senator is if you don't have a majority you go out and make sure you get it. It's the 18-30 year olds that overwhelmingly went to Obama. We've got to teach our young people.

HATCH: I know I'm not supposed to get a second rebuttal but I'm going to do one anyway. I raised millions of dollars for conservatives and if it wasn't for me, we wouldn't have the conservatives we do!

7:38 - 6TH QUESTION - Hatch, you've voted for many bills that expand scope of fed govt. How can we know you'd be the right leader to reduce size and scope of fed govt?

HATCH: I've voted for very few bills that expand the size of govt. I voted against most of them. I'm the author of the proposed Balanced Budget Constitutional Amendment. I brought it to the floor 13 times. I passed it once under Reagan but the House killed it. I intend to work my guts out to get that passed. The fact is, some of us really do work hard to get this country out of these doldrums. I've voted 12,600 times in Senate; I can't look back on too many votes I regret. I have the highest position in Senate; Mitt Romney and I can turn this country around. (wow, how many times is he going drop Mitt's name?)

DAN: One of my proudest moments was watching you, Sen. Hatch, debate that amendment; I was in the gallery. I wish it would have passed too. You voted and championed Medicare Part D which added trillions to our debt. It is not lost on me that we're going to have to pay for that. You can't hold up Balanced Budget in one hand and then pass legislation that makes it impossible to pay for it in the other. (rousing audience applause)

HATCH: Wait just a second, I'm going to answer that. Don't be so enthusiastic!

CHRIS: First, I'm grateful for Hatch's service. You don't have to pass a Balanced Budget Amendment to write a balanced budget. I believe it's time for other people to have the opportunity to serve.

HATCH: Personally I believe it's time for Utah to have the opportunity and that's what I'll give them as leader of the SFC. Part D has helped thousands of seniors get prescription durgs and now people are living longer. (i.e. vote for me or seniors will die) It came in at less than it was projected to be and it came in as order of states.

7:44 - Thomas Wright: "Sen. Hatch, that was your second rebuttal, so I'm going to let Dan have a 2nd rebuttal and then I'm going to go back to the rules and one rebuttal." (Wright's doing a good job).

DAN: I don't have a problem with Part D. If it came in at 43% less than expected, that means you were expecting $22 trillion in debt and we only came in at $16. Doesn't seem like that good of a deal. It's a little exasperating to realize those debts. Soc Security and Medicare are bankrupt, and it's going to fall to my generation to pay for it. (applause)

CHRIS: It comes back to personal responsibility. I support GOP when they're right and criticize them when they're wrong. We need to correct the GOP when they're wrong, not just blindly support them.

7:46 - 7TH QUESTION - What will you do about immigration?

CHRIS: I've experienced immigration, having been married in Ukraine, I have a business partner who's a black Ethiopian Jew, a sister-in-law who's South Korean, and yet when I talk about reforming immigration, I've been called a racist, a fascist, etc. There's many things that need to be addressed. My immigration policy is the same as Mitt Romney's. (a-ha!) We need to make the front gate as wide as possible and seal off the back gate. My business partner has lost relatives becuz they were denied legal immigration. Ethiopia's standard of living is 1/15 of Mexico's. Amnesty isn't fair.

HATCH: I've done more about immigration than anyone back there. I brought the 287g program to Utah. I was able to get an immigration court in Utah. I could go on, but I know that unless we control our border, we won't be able to solve these problems. We should provide a way for them to play by the rules. No amnesty, they have to go to the back of the line.

7:50 - 8TH QUESTION - Sen. Liljenquist, why did you miss almost a quarter of the votes in the state senate?

DAN: So glad you've asked that. Some of u may have seen one of the $300,000 worth of ads by FreedomPath, making it look like i was off golfing or something. I was there working on pension reform and Medicaid reform. Millions of dollars of lobbying money against it. I was crafting, writing, fighting for those bills. If a vote was close, they'd call me back in, but all the ones I missed weren't close at all or unanimous. I was elected to get things done and those bills will save this state billions.

HATCH: With pension reform, we still owe billions, and let me tell you, I can walk and chew gum at the same time. (*crickets*) I have a 97% voting record over 36 years. (ugh, what a weak argument. You're a full-time senator; he's a part-time senator). I think it's an important issue.

CHRIS: I was going to stay silent on this, but this illustrates why it's important to have someone who's been in a state senate. There's a big difference between state senate and US senate. I will defend Dan on this. (applause) Here's the reason: in a manner of minutes you can miss 3 votes. In DC they have 20-30 minutes per vote. To say you can compare DC to the state is simply unfair.

HATCH: I still think- I still think-! I still think you're elected to vote. (breaking the rules again...)

DAN: I've received natl awards for state legislator of the year. You're not just there to vote; you're there to lead. That's what I did. I did not make this an issue. How many votes did you miss this week, this year? By my count, you've missed 30% of the votes this year.

HATCH: No I haven't.

7:55 - 9TH QUESTION - from Thomas Wright, "This is my question. What is your favorite part of the GOP platform and why?"

CHRIS: The part about the Constitution and limited govt. I spent 5 of my years outside the US. It's truly an inspired document. Upholding its principles is by far the most important part.

DAN: It's hard to argue with this. It's neat to swear to uphold the Constitution. The govt doesn't get to grant rights. It doesn't get to redistribute wealth. The GOP is true to that platform and those principles. We were the party of the liberation of slaves, the party of fiscal responsibility. I support the platform.

HATCH: I want to support my colleagues, I agree with them 100%. I want to get unrid of unconstitutional bills like ObamaCare, but they covered it very well.

7:58 - 10TH QUESTION - Is there a difference between leadership and seniority, and if so, what's the difference?

DAN: Absolutely. This race may come down to this one question. Do we feel forced to vote for the same people into the same system over and over, or is it time for new leaders in DC? Leadership trumps seniority every time. I think everyone here is grateful in 1976 when the argument was made that this state couldn't afford to have two freshman Senators, that they rejected it and elected [Hatch] to office. He's done a fantastic job. (That'll be on Hatch's next mailer: "He's done a fantastic job." - Sen. Dan Liljenquist) But it's time to send new leaders. I have the skills and ability to change DC and I intend to do so.

HATCH: I hardly ever use the word seniority becuz there's good seniority and bad seniority. Let me bring it home to u. I talk about experience, ability to bring people together back there. In 1989, when they were closwing bases, I'm glad Jake Garn and I had 15 years of experience in the Senate. If we'd had two freshman senators, they would have closed Hill Air Force Base. (exactly the argument one guy made at our precinct's caucus)

CHRIS: Why were we even in front of the Supreme Court last week? It was a sophomore legislator (Wimmer) that passed that bill that pushed the fight, despite resistance to the bill. You can get individual together and have that. The seniority system in DC is one of the biggest problems. Leadership elections are every bit as important as seniority.

DAN: You and Jake Garn pushed against Jimmy Carter when he tried to close it, but you did that it your first term. There is no politician in this country that is too big to fail. You did a fantastic job, especially in your first term.

HATCH: I'm in a position to benefit Utah in a fantastic way. I agree freshman senators can be effective. We have Rand Paul and Ron Johnson, and you could name a couple others... (you can tell he knows he's leaving someone out)... and Mike Lee! (there it is), but if the movement in 1989 had happened in our first term, we couldn't have stopped it. The issue will come up again in 2013 and 2015.

CHRIS: We need to talk about good governance. Take the politics out of allocation. Texas and California lost bases, Utah didn't, that's good governance, and HAFB will stay open regardless.

8:05 - 11TH QUESTION - What will you do to promote Utah's autonomy?

HATCH: let me go back and make sure I've terrified enough military personnel and seniors that HAFB will absolutely close unless you give me a seventh term. Experience does count. Now for the economy. 1) Kill ObamaCare. 2) Pass a balanced budget Amendment. 3) Reform entitlements. 4) Control the spending! All of those problems are dealt with in the SFC and I intend to be Chairman!

CHRIS: I'm proudest of the land bill I passed that said the fed govt doesn't have the right to tell you how to grow your own food. Feds said they had ability to regulate personal farms and gardens. We need to push back and make sure the state remains sovereign.

DAN: I ran on entitlement reform, and I passed it on Medicaid. We are the first state in the country to cap Medicaid spending and return it to the states. It's cause celebre to say "now is the time to reform entitltements. I've done it.

HATCH: There's a real difference between having 75% GOP control in state senate and only having one or two more in the Senate. When I'm in the SFC, I'll get things done.

CHRIS: I'll toot my own horn a little more. The PHC and I helped get our lands back. The Fed govt is forbidden to own more then ten miles square... I'll have to explain it later, I'm out of time.

DAN: (suddenly his mike is off and he talks for a while so I had a hard time understanding him but apparently the audience could hear it because the applause was deafening. but there was something about him passing his Medicaid bill unanimously)

HATCH: I would really like that.

8:11 - 12TH QUESTION - HAFB is the largest employer in Utah. What could you do to keep it from closing.

CHRIS: It comes back to good governance. If HAFB wasn't the best base, we should be willing to sacrifice, but it's one of the most valuable bases in the nation. We have to take the politics out of it. If we rely on one individual to keep the base, what happens when that individual leaves? We have to have good governance.

DAN: (holy crap, it's just his mike. Sorry, I can't understand what's he saying, then suddenly it's loud) HAFB is the most relevant base in the country; it will not be going away.

HATCH: Jim Hansen has said all over Utah that you'd better have hatch if you want to keep HAFB. Guess who comes when I call to keep HAFB. New York or California would steal it in a NY minute. I fight every single say in the Senate to keep it.

CHRIS: Leadership is more important as seniority. Mitch McConnell needs to no longer be leader. I will ask whoever gets my votes two things. 1) Get rid of seniority system. 2) Make sure all proper procedures are followed on base closings. (applause)

DAN: I live in Davis County. I know the value of Hill. Hatch & Garn defended Hill in their 1st terms. Rob Bishop sits on the Armed Services committee. We can keep Hill safe. To argue that you have to send someone back for their 37th thru 42nd year in the Senate... The Senate has shown freshmen Senators can get things done. We can protect Hill.

8:16 - 13TH QUESTION - How would you work with UT legislature to further states rights?

DAN: That's one of the main reasons I'm running. We've been blackmailed by our own money for far too long. I have the majority of state senators endorsing me openly becuz we don't have the relationship with our natl Senators that we should. I will work with UT legislature to ensure states rights.

HATCH: I'll work with our state legislature. I want to commend these two young men for the work they've done. We got to bring Utah to the forefront.

CHRIS: Thank you, Sen. Hatch. At the age of 46, it's been a while since I've been called a young man so I appreciate it. This is one of those things, it's difficult to talk about our record in one minute. We formed the PHC three years ago, got the movement started nationwide. I truly believe that states are the solution to the problem. Put those powers that US senators have back to Utah.

DAN: One experience I want to share. Hatch called to congratulate me on passing pension reform. I've lectured in over 40 states on how to do their states' pension reform. hatch put out a mailer earlier this year on how he's going to pass federal legislation telling states how to reform their pensions. He didn't talk to a single member of the Utah legislature, didn't talk to me, to the governor. It's not up to the fed govt to tell us how to reform our pensions; we've already done it.

HATCH: State leaders have been in my office many times. We've always taken their suggestions. I pay strict attention to what our state senators do. I'm proud of our state. I'm proud of (missed his name) and Ken Ivory.

CHRIS: Look at the lands bill I passed with Ken Sumsion. Our Founding Fathers recognized the fed govt should not own that much land, it would have too much power.

8:23 - Thomas Wright thanks some people, then let's them give their closing arguments.

CHRIS: I was in former USSR, and I saw two cops harrassing two children selling bread, and they were arrested. i followed those cops, then I was picked up and hauled to the station. They must have thought I was the biscuit pimp, but I saw that I couldn't solve all the problem of Soviet corruption, but I promised myself that if I saw those problems arise here, I would stand up. We do live in the day where we have to pledge our lives and our sacred honor. if you send me back to DC, I will stand up for your inalienable rights and the great state of Utah.

HATCH: Look, this is definitely going to be my last term. (some giggles) No it is. But it'll be the best doggone six years you've ever seen. Mitt Romney is making sure I get there. He understands the importance of the chair of SFC. They wouldn't dare take me on for HAFB. 60% of spending goes through that committee. Mitt Romney wants me there.

DAN: Outside of my family and religion, I have three passions: economics, law, business. I worked at bain and I worked on an airline turnaround. I did similar work at ACS. (Whoa, he did? I'd like to know more on that.) I used my skills in legislature, and DC needs a turnaround team. I think I can lead and make a difference.

And we're done.

I really liked and appreciated the chance to hear these candidates and see them together.

I'd say Dan Liljenquist won the debate, Chris Herrod was a very close second, and Orrin Hatch was a distant third.

Dan did a good job of demonstrating how freshmen can accomplish a lot in a short amount of time, and he did the best at going after hatch and illustrating how wrong it is to say we have to give a senator seven six-year terms before he can accomplish anything.

I'd been turned off by some Chris Herrod supporters (most of them anonymous online folk, granted), but I was impressed with him. Seems like a good guy, interesting background, classy. Sure, it's one debate, but I could see Dan or Chris as our next US Senator from Utah.

Orrin Hatch played on people's fears tonight. Re-elect me or you're doomed. Hill Air Force Base will vanish. I will have the power if you send me back. It feels like emotional blackmail.  And he illustrated his power by boasting about who he's summoned to his office, or interrupting Dan, or breaking the debate rules. His "I can walk and chew gum at the same time" line was a ka-thud.

And if Thomas Wright decided he wanted to run in 2014 for, say, US Congressman of whatever district he lives in, he'd do quite well.

Last Night's Utah GOP Caucus

Sen. Hatch can turn that frown upside-down after last night's results.

Here's what I saw at our meeting in Orem last night.

Every time I go to the GOP caucus, our turnout is larger than expected.  The first one I went to in this area in 2004, we had maybe 20 people.  By 2010, we were up to 80.  Last night, OR28 had 171 credentialled voters show up.

Now I'd planned on running for something, but my wife couldn't come, and my sister had to leave before we got to real voting, and some of my neighbors left... It started at 7:00pm but it was almost 9:00pm by the time we elected our precinct chair.

We had five people run for precinct chair.  Three of the five were vociferous Orrin Hatch supporters, and I'd say about two-thirds of the people in the room were that.  When it came to question time, the only thing the people seemed to want to know was if they'd support Orrin Hatch for a seventh term and if they're affiliated with anyone.  The affliliation question was really about FreedomWorks, which has been running a lot of "Retire Orrin Hatch" ads.  (Personally I don't care for FreedomWorks.)

Pro-Hatch candidates won Chair and Vice-Chair.  I went ahead and ran for Vice-Chair.  I didn't expect to win it, but some of the people who were going to vote for me for State Delegate left.  Then came the election for Secretary/Treasurer.  We had 13 run for State Delegate, including me, and I was one of the lower vote-getters.  I get the feeling if I'd been pro-Hatch, I would have done better, and there were some candidates who softened their "Retire Hatch" stances.  I did say we're representing you, not ordering you, so if the vast majority in this precinct wants Hatch, I'd vote for Hatch.

I believe 10 ran for County Delegate, and I got in on first ballot.

I've been hearing similar stories from all across Utah.  Caucus attendance doubled what it did in 2010, and those extra people were all for Hatch.  Before last night, I would have though for sure Hatch would face a primary run-off, but considering how many state delegates won their election on a "Keep Hatch in Power" platform, I don't think it'll come down to that anymore.

So why such an attendance jump?  Well, there was very good publicity for caucus night.  It's a presidential election year, so people are excited to support Mitt Romney.  It's a Senate race year, and in 2010, Bob Bennett and his supporters were shocked he didn't even make it out of convention.  Orrin Hatch has spent the past two years planning for last night.  Last night was more important for his campaign than the convention, the primary, or election night.  Whoever the Republican nominee is for Senate in Utah can usually pencil in 63% of the vote, and everything after that is a signal as to how strong a candidate he is.

I was not an "Anybody But Hatch" guy, but the past few months made it difficult to remain that way.  I've liked what I heard from Dan Liljenquist, and I hear good things about Chris Herrod, and so I've been able to embrace more and more that we'd have a good candidate with whom to replace Hatch.  Hatch's support for the NDAA and SOPA/PIPA and extending the Patriot Act have just been signals to me how he's okay to nickel-and-dime away freedom, add some more guilty-until-proven-innocent laws to the books.

Also when he originally ran for Senator in 1976, he said abouty his three-term incumbent opponent, "What do you call a Senator who's served for 18 years?  You call him home."  Now he wants to extend his 36 years of service to 42 years.  Hm.

In 2010, it was about the Tea Party.

In 2012, when I was at the rec center this morning, I overheard two old men talking.

One: "The Republican Party has to watch out for that Tea Party. I'd never go to one of their rallies."

Two: "They want to get rid of taxes.  We're $17 trillion in debt! How we going to pay that off with no taxes?"

After last night, I also wonder if they're going to draw up smaller precincts.  With that type of participation, it's something for the Party heads to think about.

BUT!.....

My focus now is on being the most informed county delegate I can be.  Between now and April 14, I'm going to go to my meetings, read the campaign literature, talk to as many people running as I can.

Sen. Bob Bennett ousted by GOP delegates

"Throw the bums out!" should mean something. Usually it means "Throw your bums out, but we'll keep our incumbents."

Utah delegates released Bennett from the Senate after 18 years of service. For me, it always came back to his pledge he made in 1992, when he said he'd only serve two terms. He served three. Eighteen years. Plenty of time to get done what you want to get done.

And at this point, I'd recommend to Sen. Orrin Hatch to consider retiring in 2012. Jason Chaffetz, freshman Congressman from Utah's 3rd, will probably run for that seat then, and I'd wager the anti-incumbent sentiment will still be high.